Washer jet heaters

Post by **RichardW** » 09 Dec 2010, 07:43

Checked last night and the concentrate is slushy in the bottle.... d'oh

Off to try and buy something stronger at the weekend! I'll probably still do something with the washer jets though.

Dommo · Post by **Dommo** » 09 Dec 2010, 19:27

DickieG wrote: When I get the chance I'll have a dig around my spares stash, I may have a couple of heated nozzles in there.

How much would you want for a pair of those "bad boi'z"? Sounds like a plan to have some of them, shame my VSX doesnt have them already, seems to have most other things apart from the winter pack!

Post by **RichardW** » 21 Dec 2010, 12:36

Found some Comma X-Stream in my local factors. £4 / litre

but good for -65°C it must be near neat alcohol. Smells awful, but chucked a litre in on top of what was in the tank, and still had working washers when car was saying -12°C this morning. Trouble was, it just froze across the screen, even though the car was warm inside!

The X-stream at 1:4 should give about -20°C protection, so that's probably strong enough. Although the way this winter is going, maybe not

Old-Guy · Post by **Old-Guy** » 21 Dec 2010, 13:07

On Sunday night, the N/S washer jets were 'frozen', O/S not. Looking more closely, the N/S jets were encased in re-frozen slush off the the nice warm screen - must remember to clear the screen more carefully.

I suspect the problem with washer-fluid freezing on the screen (or at the jets) is that the principal 'anti-freeze' (and de-grease) component is iso-propyl alcohol (IPA). This has a high vapour-pressure even at current chilly temperatures, so as it evaporates it further cools the mix on the screen which rapidly becomes less concentrated. Ethylene glycol, as in coolant anti-freeze, is a no-no because it would attack the paintwork.

In the late 60's windscreen washers were an innovation (on humble cars) and washer additives were almost unknown, I made up a washer heater for my Mini 7: I carefully formed some 6(?)mm soft copper pipe into several turns from around the top hose, soldering a couple of tails (to fit the polythene washer tubing) into the ends. New tubing via 'heater' from the (manual) washer pump to the jets. AS the non-return valve had 'died' from frost the previous winter, the system was self-draining and the round plastic washer bottle seemed to be elastic enough to cope with the water freezing solid. As the bottle was somewhere behind the engine (can't now visualise where it would thaw out after a while. This the set-up worked surprisingly well.

cachaciero · Post by **cachaciero** » 21 Dec 2010, 19:38

RichardW wrote:Didn't we decide that the aux heater was an option by itself, rather than just the winter pack...??

Some interesting thoughts guys. Running near neat concentrate, but it still damn well freezes in the nozzles. Maybe I need another brand!

There is a thread running on this subject on C5 group. It has been said that the freezing point of neat solution is actually higher than that of the solution mixed with water.

It seems to me that with current temperatures one needs to be sure that the fluid freezing point is at least -15 degrees otherwise freezing in the pipes is likely to be the least of ones problems. If it don't freeze in the bag it shouldn't freeze in the pipes but the nozzles will probably freeze because of external moisture getting into the jets. De-icing the nozzles as such seems to me bit problamatical as all the ones I have seen are largely of plastic construction.
Maybe a bit of heated copper tube immediately before the jets would work. If using nichrome wire wound around the tube I would be looking for about 20W per nozzle.

cachaciero

Post by **RichardW** » 21 Dec 2010, 20:27

cachaciero wrote: There is a thread running on this subject on C5 group. It has been said that the freezing point of neat solution is actually higher than that of the solution mixed with water.

Not for alcohol water mixes....

RichardW wrote:
reblack68 wrote: Also- washer fluid. For a mixture of any two liquids there is a eutectic mixture, where the freezing point is as low as it can get. Add more of either constituent and the freezing point rises. (This applies to alloys too, eutectic solder is roughly 67%tin and 37% lead). No washer fluid manufacturer I've seen tells you what the best mix is, they all say "more is more", which simply isn't the case.

Not all mixtures are eutectic - most likely they use iso proply alcohol in screenwash (HMRC would never let them get away with ethanol!) and this exhibits depression of freezing point with increasing concentration: IPA water data. Ethylene glycol (as in antifreeze) does have a minimum freezing point at around 65% E-G.