Tires for snow/ice ? Xantia in particular.

[Xaccers]

why don't people read instead of just scanning?

the car was driven onto the ramps without raising the suspension incedentially by a tyre fitter "Not a Citroën specialist" or a mechanic.
if you want to drive your Xantia at 20 mph in the top position fine go ahead I wont be doing that I'm afraid.

as for buying chocolate biscuits for someone I asked politely not to drive with the suspension in top TWICE as he first ignored me and carried on doing the same thing the first time, after I lowered the suspension to the intermeadiate height for him.
is just plain stupid. so the manual uis for numpties as you say so ignore every saftey message in the manual id that what you are saying, this would include the bright yellow message at the bottom of the page "

always use axle stands when working under the Xantia" another load of crap I suspose, we already know this to be a valuable piece of information and we all support this very much so.

The manual also contains some other useful information that doesnt just relate to idiots

when buying a used Xantia or any other item in this world I do tend to bother to read the manual it can save you from disaster, now I do know of several people that dont bother to read manuals and have the attitude that manuals are for numpties until they do something stupid like put the batteries in the wrong way around, I don't proffess to know everything like some who do and don't bother with manuals and I think my attitude towards always following manuals is a pretty safe bet, on using equipment properly withoput going bull at a gate and doing some serious damage.

Nigel, perhaps it would be better if you were to read what is posted rather than skimming?

Perhaps you aren't aware that the suspension can drop suddenly after the car's been up on stands for a while, it would seem that you aren't.
You may believe that the owners manual is a technical service manual, you are wrong.
You also seem to be bizarrely under the impression that it's be said the whole thing should be ignored, strange how you're having trouble understanding that workshop/technical manuals/Citroen training/experience can override what is written in it.
How do you cope with manuals which say conflicting information? Mine and other's manuals say that you can drive on high. If the manuals are gospel, then how can you explain why it's ok in ours but not in yours?

You consider shouting at someone being polite?
He's dealt with more Citroens than you've probably had hot dinners, he's most likely seen how they can drop after being on stands so knows that to guarentee no damage when reversing off the ramp (again, I take it there were no pot holes, rocks, speed bumps, high drops etc at the bottom of the ramp right?) you set the car on high.

[dieselnutjob]

Personally I take the owners manual as advice from the manufacturer to me. However in the end it is my property and therefore up to me what I do with it.

Now, if I read the manual and then look at the design of the car and other information and decide that it's okay to drive the car slowly with the suspension on high then that's my decision.

Equally, if I am paying a garage to work on my car and specifically tell them not to drive it on high then I think I have the right to do that and expect my instructions to be honoured. If the mechanic doesn't agree then he should refuse to work on the car under the terms that I have set out rather than just ignore it.

Personally it drives me nuts that mechanics always want to put a trolley jack under the jacking point on the sills of my car. Because a trolley jack moves through an arc it puts a different force on them compared with the scissor jack and always seems to damage them. I always tell them to put their jack under the subframe, mostly they don't listen though.

[Stepto1]

If the jack moves in an arc, how does placing it under a different place help?

If a trolly jack is used to lift a car, the lifting pad does not move in an arc as the 'trolly' moves back and forth as the car is lifted and lowered. This movement on the floor allows the jack's pad to move in a natural way. If anything, a trolly jack is much better then a sissor jack ar these does not allow for any movement at all.

The tyre place I use always raise the Xantia to it's highest setting before doing any work. Last time I was down there one of the younger lads was getting a lesson on these types of car. I did hear the lad get told to never drive them on high as there is no movement left.

Who knows.

[dieselnutjob]

it helps because the subframe is much stronger than the sill

a trolley jack will only move vertically if the wheels can freely roll. It only takes the smallest stone or irregularity in the floor to stop it rolling and that the jack will try and move in an arc

also the jack that comes with the car lifts it over a flat width of about 4 or 5cm

trolley jacks normally only seem to contact the sill at two narrow points which are the edge of the cup on top of the jack

I might be right or I might be wrong, but the point is that it's my car and if I tell then not to jack it under the sill then they shouldn't jack it under the sill.

[Xaccers]

I have to say whenever I use a trolley jack, I use the subframe, getting the jack's cup over the massive nut under there so should anything shift it's movement should be restricted.
It also means the jack doesn't get in the way for putting axle stands under the jacking points.
I've seen non-mechanics supporting the car via the flat part of the subframe, at an angle, on axle stands with no chocks on the rear wheels so if something moved the whole thing could come crashing down!

The trolley jacks they have at the local tyre places around here have large rubber cups, around 10cm or so across.
I can see them potentially bending the tabs at each end of the jacking points.

[dieselnutjob]

I can see them potentially bending the tabs at each end of the jacking points.

Funny you should say that

[falling-out-with-my-car]

If I send you a copy of my xantia manual will you be satisfied??

actually I compared my S2 Manual to a Mk1 xantia manual today as my

Dad has the Mk1 and I have the so called S2 the manuals are different

and the Mk1 says you can drive with the suspension in the top setting

very carefully at very low speeds, this passage is not included in the S2

Manual. the S2 manual only says that you can drive in the intermeadiate

setting which is the next setting down from top this has the same

instructions as the Mk1 has for the top setting.

as the gent above says it is my choice it is my car, if others want to drive their xantia in the top setting I have no issues with that at all. I also reguard the users manual as instructions from the manufacturer to me the owner, it is essential to findng specific fuses the pollen filter and various other bits and pieces not covered by the haynes manuals.

as for the suspension suddenly dropping for no reason I am yet to experience that one, as I use a trolly jack/axle stands when under the car. this was not the issue at the time having tyres changed.

my only regret is not being clued up enough to post a piccy of my manuals height settings page on here but I am willing to mail it to someone willing to post it.

whilst we are on reading posts properly I think I did explain at least once that I asked the trye fitter not to drive the xantia in the top setting, I moved the lever back to the normal driving position for him and didnt raise my voice to him until I turned back to look through the window of the waiting area to see the car rising yet again to its top position.

he had totally ingored my initial instructions, that is why I shouted at him.
as I said above he said he didnt like being spoken to like that I told him I didnt like having to tell him twice, in this respect I think all in all that was a pretty fair reaction on my part.


oh and merry Christmas everyone.

[Rhothgar]

I bought some StarPerformer Winter AS from a guy on Ebay. "StarPerformer" - Who I hear you say? Me too.

Bargain of the year. £100 for 4 and they had only done 100 miles. The previous owner had changed his car. He didn't say he had crashed on the first UK snow.

So, being a budget, I delved in partly driven by the fact that I was looking to buy these tyres brand new from www.mytyres.co.uk (a pretty good website) BUT...

When the snow hit and they immediately increased the price for new from £36.90 to over £58 I was a bit riled even though they would still be a cheap set of tyres.

Now that we are over in Austria, I have to say they are performing really well and exceeded my expectations.

We did drive the 1007 miles in a day. 22 hours and 58 minutes to be exact.

Interesting drive through France. Snow for about 150+ miles, at least four cars trashed on the side of the road but we were still creeping past cars driving in the single clear lane, on the snow covered outside lane of the autoroute at anywhere between 45 - 60mph. 60 mph was not so creeping!!

It really was almost a joy to drive in those conditions. I have never seen anything like it.

In Department de L'Aisne, there were lorries parked on the outside lane of the autoroute going to Calais, lights off and bedded down for the night.

I had heard that the Conseil Generale had banned lorries from moving on the roads earlier last week but thought it had been lifted.

Can you imagine driving on a motorway in UK and seeing lorries parked in the outside lane against the armco because of being banned from driving - it was insane.

The drive should have taken around 16 hours but we had to crash out and get some rest every now and them especially in Germany when we were in sometimes dense fog. Mainly misty for around 200 miles. That was tiring and stressful!

Anyway, we got here all safe and sound on 24th December. Just in time for Weinachten!

Looking forward to the drive back next week!

[falling-out-with-my-car]

RogDodge,

I believe that they do have a system here in the UK called operation stack linning up the lorries on the Motorway for when the weather is to bad for the ferries to operate.

[bencowell]

During Operation Stack, the motorway is closed to cars and the whole place becomes a lorry park.