where have all the xantias gone?

[myglaren]

I can never understand how opinions for particular Citroëns seems polarised
I'm OK with the Bx though it never appealed to the artist/designer in me
and never took to the Xm initially as I never forgave it for replacing the CX!

I think you've hit the nail on the head there as from what I can see those who express strong opinions of dislike towards other Citroën models always appear to point them towards the model that replaced their own favourite.

Mind you my own dislike of the shape of S1 C5's is due to them looking as if they were designed over the phone or by numerous committees who never met until they had to piece the the car together

Although I own one I can't disagree.
The first time I saw one, in a dealers showroom, I was staggered that they could go from the Xantia to that.
I did like the interior though (it was an Exclusive automatic).
I tell myself that it isn't as bad as a lot of the non-Citroen competition.

[andmcit]

It does appear to stem from resentment of the new upstart unseating the
established and much loved model. Maybe my reluctance to fully accept the
Bx is because of it's role in replacing the GSA?

I've read past Citroenians where there were two distinct camps between
the Traction and the D, the D and the Cx, then the Cx and the Xm and to a
lesser extent the Xm to C5 though - this was never really a viable Xm
replacement despite posturing and fudging in the marketing by Citroen to
fill the void left by the departure of the Xm and the very capable Xantia
model lines.

The shock to my system was immense on seeing the s1 C5 at it's launch
and I mentally 'mourned' the passing of the Xantia even before fully
appreciating just how great and competent car the Xant is.

There is hope as the C6 does seem to buck the trend as many Cx and Xm
owners would have one however and the latest C5 seems well received.

Andrew[/img]

[Citroenmad]

This has turned into quite an interesting thread.

Firstly i dont see how people can hate a car, after all, they all do a very similar thing when you think about it. I really like the way in whiuch every new model of Citroen is not a direct replacement or just a larger copy of the one which went before. As seems the way with most manufacturers. Things are moving on slowly in other manufactuers, but for example the Modneo of 1993 isnt that different to the model of 2003, obviously there are changes but there is no huge difference.

I dont think the C5 deserves half of the stick which it recieves. It was penned to replace both the Xantia and the Xm as Ctiroen mentioned they were not going to build another big Citroen - though i suspenct the C6 was already a glint in the eye of its designer by that point. So it had big boots to fill, however i know people who have gone from Xantias and Xms to C5s and they are happy with them, some more than others.

One reason i really would like a Xantia is to compare it between the Xm and the C5, as i actually think the C5 is better than an Xm in many ways, though in many ways its not as good. Though for anyone needing to replace an Xm for whatever reason i would recommend a C5 to them.

I do like the look of the new C5, but its very dissapointing in terms of space. There is more space in the S1/S2 C5 than the new Germanic model, i feel cramped in the front of those, the back is very cramped for me and the door opening is narror. Its now a saloon car which does not appeal as i need a large hatchback. The estate is now called the 'tourer' and offers far less space than th eoriginal C5, which offers slightly less boot and rear legroom than the Xm estate, which is vast. So im not keen on the new C5 and i doubt ill ever own one.

Yes, i agree, the S1 C5 might not be too all tastes as far as its looks go. I remember rushing out to buy a copy of Autoexpress in 2000 to see what the Xantias replacement would look like. The images were very computer finished but i thought it was a good looking car. I admit thatwhen it was lauched its styling took some getting used to though i liked the car from the off. It is a bit of a baloon shape rather than the sleekly styled Xantia and sharp looking Xm, but then very few modern cars are sleek or sharp.

Credit should be given to the C5 though, as in terms of a long distance mile muncher i actually rate it more than an Xm. The seats are not as hugging as the XM, but they are comfortable and ive spent many many hours in them without aching. Before i got a C5 i remember having to stop at the half way point on journeys of 200 miles or so, thats a breeze in the C5 and i very very rarely stop. The C5 is more refined at speed than the Xm as there is less wind noise, road noise is very well subdued, the ride is almost perfect for motorways and the economy is excellent. Xms and Xantias are noiseier at speed (i say that but they themselves are very quiet, so it shows the C5s refinement here)

Though for a daily driver we have to face facts sometimes, Good Xms are very hard to find now, if you do find one its not always the case that you will have one with the spec you want, Air con is not that common on Xms and thats a must for my daily car. So finding one is difficult, then there is their age, they stand the test of time and mileage extremely well the Xms and Xantias, but that doesnt mean to say they have been looked after, many have been neglected.

We sometimes do the odd sphere regassing for old customers, today a very nice guy brought his, owned from new, 2000 Xm TCT Auto for a regass. Its one of the last and its got most of the options, climate, cruise, second rear screen etc. A very well looked after car with only 80K. Virtually scratch free too, however its bodywork edges around the wheel arches and some doors were showing aging rust, as was the underside and the sill looked to have been patched in the common place. He said he has looked at the new C5 but was not impressed with the sapce and said its very cramped - i agree. He had a look at our C5 estate which he seemed much more positive about.

C5s have sold in large numbers which makes finding a good C5 very easy, they are highly specced, with even the base LX having Air con, the better specs gaining dual zone climate (a great idea), trip computer, cruise control, auto lights and wipers (again, another great idea). They are superb value for money, cheap to run and quite cheap to keep. They make excellent long distance cruisers and they are good to drive, a bit numb maybe but they can be hussled along very well. Mine puts up with a lot of spritied driving and i look forward to driving it.

I love driving the Xm, its a great car to drive and all 4 Xms we have had have been fantastic to drive. Despite this i still look forward to getting in my C5 after driving an Xm. The Xm is the better drivers car though, the hydractive suspension makes it quite remarkable and its a bit more agile with more feel than the C5.

Im obviously missing something, as where are the negatives ... obviosuly its not perfect but its a great daily car. I really cant fault it for many things many and certainly nothing which should put people off considering or buying one. If there was we wouldnt have 3 of them!

Even if you think the C5 has lost some of Citroens spirit, yes its toned down, but the ride is still much better than a conventional car and the self leveling is a great feature.

I looked at many large family sized cars when i wass looking for a replacement for my first C5, but after considering almost everything and driving quite a few, i decided that i couldnt beat the C5 and so got another. The one i have now is the spec i originally wanted when i got the SX, and its the colour i wanted too - i couldnt find that in an Xm! Im extremely happy with my C5 and ive decided id probably only change it for a facelifted model, but not yet, im enjoying this one. There are lots of thing si like about C5, i could be here a while if i started!

Obviously everyone doesnt like the same things, i just think they shouldnt be put down as much as they are, mainly due to their styling, which to most is now a familiar sight.

A Mixte: im sure this was the term Citroen used to use for a Van with windows, the C15 with windows and seats was called a Mixte.

I agree though, that no one can really comment on a car unless they have driven it and compared wit with what they think is better.

So i can not comment on CX vs XM, as ive not driven a CX, though i have been in quite a few, but i do prefer the Xms looks to the CXs. Im very open minded about cars and only the worst rubbish (Picantos, Accents and the likes) are worth hating, and even then, as long as you dont buy one, its not really a huge worry! How anyone can dislike an Xm or anything which is of some interest to some people with a passion is beyond me, especially if they have not really expereineced one.

[lexi]

The last 15 months have fired easily 80% of Xantias that were on the road into slow boats to china.

The recipe was there for it:

Very low residuals. Unloved by the majority. Loathed by the trade. Up and down suspension (shock horror how much to fix guv?). Scrappage scheme. Fantastic scrap prices.

I don't think a model has went into obscurity as quickly since the NSU RO 80 .........well maybe not that quick

[steelcityuk]

Quite a few Xantias knocking about in Sheffield. I even saw a nice XM parked up the other day and it wasn't the one that parks at work.

I hope they'll still be a few GSAs left when I'm in the market for the next car.

Steve.

[addo]

I think it would have been hard - at the time of inception - to like the BX as a successor to the GS.

Hindsight, applied to that era of Bertone-inspired boxy wedges, makes it more palatable. Even somewhat endearing.

BX was a watershed car here. Expensive, unmistakeably European, and for the first time a Citroën with decent rustproofing and icy cold aircon that could chill the whole cabin. It was a little more fuel (octane level) tolerant than the GS, too, as we slid into an era of crappy petrol.

Shame the plastics disintegrated in our relentlessly warm and UV-riddled climate.

I think the Xantia had more of a nod to the past; it incorporated elements of XM, CX and Dee models stylistically. In that sense, being more of a crowd-pleaser it will probably not end up so loved as the BX or XM.

[frenchcarnut]

I think the Xantia had more of a nod to the past; it incorporated elements of XM, CX and Dee models stylistically. In that sense, being more of a crowd-pleaser it will probably not end up so loved as the BX or XM.

If only people knew though. I still have fond memories of my Xantia - albeit the lesser desired 16V petrol. But it's a lovely car with a beautifully controlled ride and stunning lines. And VERY easy to maneuvre for a large car; being much more intuitive to reverse park than my C5 has been. I dunno, I think people will regret it when these drop off the edge big time. Still, plenty currently whizzing around South Brum. Passed two only this morning on the road and an estate parked up.

[Xaccers]

That's what I love about the Xantia, even the estate handles like a small car.

[XantiaMan]

As seems the way with most manufacturers. Things are moving on slowly in other manufactuers, but for example the Modneo of 1993 isnt that different to the model of 2003, obviously there are changes but there is no huge difference.

They are totally different cars.

A few common parts may be shared of course, but a lot of time passed from the 93 Mondeo, the 96 facelift to become the Mk2 and then the completely new 2000 onwards Mk3. A bit like comparing a 1988 BX with a 2010 C5, thats how different they are.

[Citroenmad]

As seems the way with most manufacturers. Things are moving on slowly in other manufactuers, but for example the Modneo of 1993 isnt that different to the model of 2003, obviously there are changes but there is no huge difference.

They are totally different cars.

A few common parts may be shared of course, but a lot of time passed from the 93 Mondeo, the 96 facelift to become the Mk2 and then the completely new 2000 onwards Mk3. A bit like comparing a 1988 BX with a 2010 C5, thats how different they are.

Obviously they are totally different cars, though the Mk2 was almost a MK1, the MK3 was a totally different car. Maybe that was a bad example. What i mean is often when a new cars comes out you know what it is, usually a slightly bigger, marginally differently styled car but still looks similar to the last. But with Citroen they often bring out something totally different, not always but often. The C5 S1 is a mile apart from the S3 C5 now, totally different. As was the Cx to the Xm etc.

They often hint back at styling cues but they rarely redo things they have done.

[rmunns]

Hey, lexi!!

I was keen on NSU Ro80's and had 4 of them. When they were good they were really nice. Luckily I never had a bad 'un but several I knew of were real problem cars.

[steelcityuk]

I think the Xantia is a very nicely styled car that still looks good even today, the shape around the rear flanks is very nicely done. The ride in mine wasn't that consistant and the first time I drove an XM I realised what I was missing. A 2.1 VSX would be tempting.

The Mk1 C5 is strange from the front but the 3/4 profile looking from the rear corner I thought was nice. As a car I loved mine but it was just too reliable and ordinary.

I love the look of a nicely turned out XM (hatch only - the estate is great but not to my taste styling wise, maybe too boxy?). The Mk1 interior with the rotary heater controls look just right to me.

All my personal opinions you understand.

As for the Ro80, now you're talking!

Steve.

[andmcit]

Salutary lesson.

The Gs was a totally fabulous car and much loved by those who 'understood'
and many were sold in the UK. Problem with it for the average guy owning
one was the silly exhaust system, leaky engine with cam rattle if not properly
maintained and fed regular decent oil with proper filter etc, so with it's
exaggerated complexity it sadly disappeared off the roads en masse over
about 5-8 years and now they don't exist even if you did want one.

This scenario sound familiar with Xantia and Xm's situation at the moment?



Andrew

[triumphtoledo]

I love big Cits but low values do not help their prospects for survival.

Although I am too young to remember the time when GSs were common
(even though I owned a GSA in the early noughties), many a BX and Xantia were bought by people who wanted a cheap car to run into the ground.

Even the second-generation C5 (from 04-08) seems to be falling into this trap and I have seen quite a few cars that have not even reached their 7th birthday, which are looking incredibly tatty in the hands of their owners, who cannot even be bothered to clean out the interior.

Maybe the 2nd generation C5 was not especially popular with private buyers (many of whom were probably disillusioned with the unreliability of the original model, especially in 2.2HDI trim) and so many examples on the used car scene may have been ex-fleet hacks.

When I sold my BX TZD Turbo estate on eBay last year, I made a tidy sum on it, even if it did have 150,000 on the clock; simply because I had looked after it. Xantias will go the same way in ten years’ time. However, I always found that, while the Xantia was a huge advance over the BX in terms of build and road holding, it was not as characterful to drive, as roomy, as quick or as economical. At least the 16v petrol Xants were considerably better than the BX’s 8v units.

Unlike many motoring journalists, I am not a fan of the X7 C5. It ticks all the right boxes but if you want a German car, buy German. If you want a French saloon, buy a C6. I think that Citroen is trying to have it both ways, by marketing the two cars together.


I was tempted to purchase a Tourer for my own needs but I was disappointed by the lack of interior space, especially rear luggage capacity. The fascia is also far too fussy and is certainly overdesigned. I since bought a series 2 C5 Exclusive, with all the options (barring the lane departure system and sunroof) and, when by wife (ex-Xantia owner) got into it, her first comment was that the dashboard is “typically Citroen”. She still misses the refinement of her series 2 Xantia, since it was written off by an errant bus but I would like to find her a nice C5 Exclusive hatchback, to replace her early Megane convertible (don’t ask…), when the inevitable babies come along…

R

[addo]

I remember the Triumph Toledo!

Dolly Sprints were more fun... Taught myself to drive manual in one. Endearing, but in almost every way the Xantia is a nicer thing.