xsara Key not recognised

godamit · Post by **godamit** » 26 Oct 2010, 12:38

I have a problem with my Citroen Xsara 1.4 lx on a 51 plate.
It has started to not recognise the ignition key! when the key is inserted, a light comes on the dashboard whic looks like a key inside a large box.
The engine will then not start. Sometimes this is overcome by changing to the spare key, but now I have to insert the key and turn it in under a second or it wont start.
Does any one have any suggestions on how to fix this problem?

godamit · Post by **godamit** » 31 Oct 2010, 14:36

It looks like citroen dont know either! I have just paid £60 for them to put it on the diagnostic machine and find they cant find anything wrong with it

spider · Post by **spider** » 31 Oct 2010, 16:39

If its only doing it at random, it may be the transponder aerial.

This is fitted around the ignition barrel. It can be changed without any coding needed, its only a pickup nothing more.

If I remember correctly, they are not expensive. If it was me and a diagnostic did not show anything I would change this as a matter of course, as its not really possible to 'test' it unless its totally dead (in which case the car would never start)

Post by **RichardW** » 31 Oct 2010, 20:51

I'd go along with the aerial theory. Service.Citroen lists two, but I can't figure out whether both are fitted? They're not dear, and not hard to fit IIRC - you might suggest that to your local garage that they might want to fit it FOC since they relieved you of £60 to not tell you what's wrong with it!

0000616076 AERIAL 6.48 GBP 7.61 GBP 7.61 GBP

0000616071 AERIAL 14.63 GBP 17.19 GBP 17.19 GBP

The descriptions are:

6160 71 AERIAL
- BUILT-IN SYSTEMS INTERFACE (BSI)
6160 76
AERIAL
- ANC CONTROL BOX (BSI) COMM 2000

...which doesn't really help

ponsaloti · Post by **ponsaloti** » 31 Oct 2010, 22:57

Does the spare key work every time with no problems

godamit · Post by **godamit** » 01 Nov 2010, 14:55

It started to go wrong about a week ago. The wife went to pick up the kids from school and it would not start and the key in a box light came on. I went to the school with the original big key( the one with the remote locking on) and it started first time. We swapped keys and it was fine, so we drove home. At home I checked it again, this time the big key would not start the car and swapping to the ordinary plain key worked( this key is a genuine citroen key) so we decided to keep both keys in the car so she could swap if it ever stopped working. On Tuesday this week She tried to start the car and it would not start with either key. I tried several times, but to no avail, so I called the AA and they arrived about an hour later and the damn car started first time! I described what had happened and he said leave it running now and take it to citroen. If its keys, they will have to re program them, there is nothing the AA can do. So I drove it straight to Citroen in Chester and left it with them and they have now said its been on the diagnostic machine(£60) and they cant find anything wrong with it. it starts every time for them.
I dont want to pay £60 for nothing when I know there is a problem which could return next time I use the car.

spider · Post by **spider** » 01 Nov 2010, 15:01

What's probably happening here is its locking itself out with the key it did not like.

The delay of an hour or so was enough to release it.

There is one 'test' you can try. This is going to sound stupid but it can sometimes work.

Next time it does not start, do not continually try to start it.

Get the key (if needed put tape on it, as you do NOT want it to come apart or be damaged) and throw it on the floor, seriously. You may want to throw it into the car floor area instead of the actual tarmac obviously. Do this a couple of times (as above ensure it will not come apart otherwise you have big problems)

Now try to start the car again. If it starts, replace the transponder aerial.

This does actually work on some 306's / 406's so I see no reason why it should not. Please if you are going to try this ensure the key will not come apart as if the chip falls out it will be lost...

godamit · Post by **godamit** » 01 Nov 2010, 19:38

I will give it a go when I get the car back from citroen. I told them to keep it for a few days as I was not imagining it not starting! and I did not want to have to bring it back and pay another £60.

ponsaloti · Post by **ponsaloti** » 07 Nov 2010, 15:28

spider wrote:What's probably happening here is its locking itself out with the key it did not like.

The delay of an hour or so was enough to release it.

There is one 'test' you can try. This is going to sound stupid but it can sometimes work.

Next time it does not start, do not continually try to start it.

Get the key (if needed put tape on it, as you do NOT want it to come apart or be damaged) and throw it on the floor, seriously. You may want to throw it into the car floor area instead of the actual tarmac obviously. Do this a couple of times (as above ensure it will not come apart otherwise you have big problems)

Now try to start the car again. If it starts, replace the transponder aerial.

This does actually work on some 306's / 406's so I see no reason why it should not. Please if you are going to try this ensure the key will not come apart as if the chip falls out it will be lost...

Youve got to be nuts to do this. What next? if it dosnt work, throw it in the washing machine

spider · Post by **spider** » 07 Nov 2010, 16:46

ponsaloti wrote: Youve got to be nuts to do this. What next? if it dosnt work, throw it in the washing machine

No, it does work (a few times)

Post by **CitroJim** » 07 Nov 2010, 16:50

spider wrote: Get the key (if needed put tape on it, as you do NOT want it to come apart or be damaged) and throw it on the floor, seriously.

I'm intrigued. What's the theory behind this Andy?

It's not a good idea to throw it in the washing machine though. Soapy water (bio or non-bio) will kill the plip electronics very surely...

spider · Post by **spider** » 07 Nov 2010, 17:59

CitroJim wrote:
spider wrote: Get the key (if needed put tape on it, as you do NOT want it to come apart or be damaged) and throw it on the floor, seriously.
I'm intrigued. What's the theory behind this Andy?

It's not a good idea to throw it in the washing machine though. Soapy water (bio or non-bio) will kill the plip electronics very surely...

I have no idea, although it does work (sometimes) , I would speculate the transponder chip becomes slightly dislodged (or gets put back where it should be) , a weak aerial can then 'receive' a signal.

Yes, washing machine or water = dead plip.

wheeler · Post by **wheeler** » 07 Nov 2010, 18:01

I'm curious about this aswell, why would you replace the transponder aerial if the car starts after doing this key throwing thing ??

spider · Post by **spider** » 07 Nov 2010, 18:12

wheeler wrote:I'm curious about this aswell, why would you replace the transponder aerial if the car starts after doing this key throwing thing ??

Because the chip will have moved a fraction of a mm inside its housing. It will not always work. The slight change seems to be 'enough' to let it read and unlock the ECU. It's certainly not something you can rely on working more than once or twice.

The aerial pickup is weak if it does start after this 'fix' so that's why the aerial should be changed.

I can't explain it any more as I've seen it several times on several cars (and the car was not having it otherwise, so was not just luck) , intermittent non start. Its just a 'get you started' emergency thing really

, if it does replace said aerial (personally I'd replace it anyway if in the slightest doubt about its condition)

Post by **CitroJim** » 07 Nov 2010, 18:27

That makes complete sense Andy, thanks for that

I guess the chip can be displaced by dropping the keys in the first place... We've all dropped them from time to time. Normally when trying to unlock the front door with arms full of shopping, kids and so on...