cambelt (petrol engine)

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

Toby_HDi
Posts: 1354
Joined: 05 Jan 2008, 21:31
Location: Malvern, Worcestershire
My Cars:
x 3

Post by Toby_HDi »

citroenxm wrote:Begs my Question, mobile Citroën Mechanic???

Where are you Dave? My guess is your bound to be soooo far away!!

Paul
I've often thought about it....
Toby


Previous:
2004 Peugeot 407 HDi 138 SE Luxury Pack
2001 S2 Xantia HDi 110 SX
2001 Peugeot 406 V6 Coupé
1998 S2 Xantia Activa
2000 S2 Xantia HDi 110 SX
1999 Peugeot 406 2.0 16v Estate
citroenxm
Posts: 8061
Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto

2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Post by citroenxm »

I feel confidant enough to do it....!

Paul
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
Pompey_Dave
Posts: 49
Joined: 12 Aug 2010, 10:30
Location:
My Cars:

Post by Pompey_Dave »

Where am I? the clue in in my name hahaha!! Im from the far south in a lovely place called Portsmouth

Im happy enough to give it a go, but I just need more expertise from people being around me, as knowing me I would reallign it wrong and blow my engine up, and to come all the way to bournemouth to then do my car in wont leave me amused lol!

Reason being I need it to be done perfect, as without a car, I have no job, due to not being able to get to my workplace, so that would add even more insult to the injury of having a dead car haha!

I have priced up the parts from GSF (although there may be cheaper) and so far the list is:
£48.90 for the cam belt and tensioners, (if needed or advised to get done) and
£26.25 for the water pump, reason being is if I am going to do it, I may aswell do the job right to start off with...the car may be lacking a tad in bodywork due to minor dents that were in the car when I got it, but I want to keep it as mechanically sound as possible, as I actually like this car for some strange reason lol!

If I can get someone who says "yeah I can do it, and willing to do it" then I will jump at the offer....I just dont want the risk of "yeah, I can possibly do it"

Dont mean it to sound rude, its not meant that way at all, neither is it meant to sound ungrateful, I just want to be safe that it will be done right, by myself mainly!

Gimme anything else on the car and I will be away and doing the job, I've just never done a cam belt on any car
Last edited by Pompey_Dave on 12 Oct 2010, 15:18, edited 1 time in total.
Metallic Red 1999 Mk2 Xantia, 1.8Lx
citroenxm
Posts: 8061
Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto

2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Post by citroenxm »

Dave,

Was NOT point at you directly with that above... theres been pleanty of people stuck before who'd need help, but thats it...

Its ok, Im hinting up at other ideas I have for myself...

Paul
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
Pompey_Dave
Posts: 49
Joined: 12 Aug 2010, 10:30
Location:
My Cars:

Post by Pompey_Dave »

well, as said, im happy to take up an offer, as I can bet you all know a hell of alot more than me with these cars, this is my 1st citroen, and my 2nd french car...the 1st french car I blew the gearbox on after 2 weeks haha!!

My other cars, ive either known the history, or a family friend can do the work, but he hates working on french cars for some reason, so im stuck for a mechanic haha!
Metallic Red 1999 Mk2 Xantia, 1.8Lx
Toby_HDi
Posts: 1354
Joined: 05 Jan 2008, 21:31
Location: Malvern, Worcestershire
My Cars:
x 3

Post by Toby_HDi »

Dave,

Do you have a Haynes manual? Read up and familiarise yourself with the procedure. If you're then happy to carry it out with some assistance I'm happy to help. Providing you have the space there to do it, I'm more than happy to travel to Portsmouth. Its only up the road.

If you're still not happy then thats fair enough.

As for re-aligning it wrong, you lock the cams and crank, there really isn't any scope for messing the alignment up unless you physically take a locking pin out and rotate something. The 1.8 even has fixed cam sprockets so none of that to worry about.
Toby


Previous:
2004 Peugeot 407 HDi 138 SE Luxury Pack
2001 S2 Xantia HDi 110 SX
2001 Peugeot 406 V6 Coupé
1998 S2 Xantia Activa
2000 S2 Xantia HDi 110 SX
1999 Peugeot 406 2.0 16v Estate
Pompey_Dave
Posts: 49
Joined: 12 Aug 2010, 10:30
Location:
My Cars:

Post by Pompey_Dave »

Haynes manual is something I havent got, I looked around and for some reason the shops near me only had them for the mk1

I have an idea of what to do, its mainly the timing and other bits, as I know that when the cams are locked then nothing should move, its just the fact that I havent done 1 before that makes me worry. 1 mistake and thats it, engine renew job!!
Metallic Red 1999 Mk2 Xantia, 1.8Lx
kevlights
Posts: 7
Joined: 14 Nov 2010, 00:17
Location: Timaru
My Cars:

Post by kevlights »

http://www.fastfrogs.co.nz/index.php/topic,5719.0.html

explains with photos how we changed the cam belt on a 1993 Xantia Si 2 liter 8Valve petrol with 120,000 Klms.

Cam belt. accessory belt and tensioner,plus water-pump.

some good goats turned up and decided to help put the cam belt and water pump in the Xantai, same job as BX similar XU motor,configuration.(VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff].RF)
19-10-2010
Rego ARM 18 8V petrol 2Litre Auto
Engine RF7
Vin Chassis VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]

Cam Belt 94187,BNT Timaru(Citroen Fiat Peugeot)..$63.50 incl
Accessory Belt ribbed V Belt 6PK1650 BNT Timaru...$65.40
Loctite 242 threadlock 37418 BNT........................$13.70
Loctite 401.16704A Bearing adhesive.Repco...........$07.00
Water Pump Ex Cam,FFs www.multispares.co.nz.....$57.50
Supply No 00MS008 Part No Ordered QCP2944
Auto tensioner, Bearing only,NTN GSB 513 BNT.......$18.00


Image

took top cam cover off to expose the cam belt and sprocket ,two quite long bolts.
the top curly clips hold the fuel hoses in place you will find the hoses in your way ,pays to tie them back up over the cam cover to prevent pulling them off.

Image

hope you have got small hands,not a lot of space down there

Image

bottom camshaft pulley,nut is hidden behind radiator hoses,they will frustrate the hell out of you,but hey thats why you bought a French car !They can be unclipped and pulled down a bit.

To the right in an easy to access place, is the accessory belt tensioner, the square hole is used to back off the tension(anti-clockwise) and the little hole beside it fits a 4mm drill bit to hold in place.Tis a rat trap, be careful.

Image


used the rebar rod with a 10mm square grind on the end to fit the tensioner ,and bend to suit in the vice,this worked on my car as there was space to swing the bar,yours may have less space.

the nuts and bolts, was a futile attempt to bodge a gadget, ex the net,to do the above, did not work for me.the middle small extension would have worked,if ground down a little, but we did not have an adapter,in socket set to fit T bar breaker or Ratchet to my 1/2" drivers.

Image

Bought the Rattle Gun on special from Repco,an unbelievable $66.38 on special.then the mongrels, buggered the feel good bargain,by trying to gouge my eyes out ,for $43 for a 23mm socket to fit same.

Actually went to Hirepool to rent a rattle gun,$50? but they did'nt have a 23mm socket,so wombled across the road to Murray Kitcher's Garage for some free advice,the boy told me they just put a sprocket on a breaker bar, brace it on a block of wood, and flick the key on the starter motor and Bobs your Acc client!

So we did, the Rattle gun at 220 ft Ibs wasn't shifting it !

Under this lot is the starter motor, on an Auto tranny car,take it out or loosen it a lot,to get at and jam the teeth on the ring gear to stop the crank from rotating.

On a manual car you just put it in gear and get someone to put foot on brake


On my car after a detailed examination of the area,we decided that we coulnt be FKd and just dealt to the crank bolt with a rattle gun as per Shanescitshed.com

You will need a rattle gun (air or electric) to spin the camshaft pully bolt on/off on/off heaps of times.Its a tight fit and is hard to turn by hand.

Image

9.5mm drill bit in place locking the crankshaft pulley in place.

Do not leave the locking drill bit in position when undoing the crank bolt.The pulley has a cush drive,anti vibration drive and will be wrecked/damaged if locking pin is left in while undoing crank bolt.



the drill bit is for time ing purposes only, do not leave in when undoing the crank bolt.

use this link for entire step by step photo guide.

http://www.fastfrogs.co.nz/index.php/topic,5719.0.html

Image

accessory belt was reluctant to come off until, the tensioner was removed.

Image


Pulley has to come off and the cam cover behind it to get at the timeing belt

Image

Image

the air con is bottom right,crank center,water-pump left
you can see how annoying the water hose pipes are?

Image

you can see the 9.5mm drill bit locking the crank in place

Image

twink markings to double check new belt goes,where old belt is now?
doesn't matter? I didn't know it wasn't necessary, I'm just following what Ive seen on net!

Image

9mm bolt in cam sprocket,to lock in place,in retrospect using a bolt with a thread was a mistake,should have been a smooth shaft,as the bolt with its thread was a bitch to remove.

Image

Image

took water pump off,black scungy stuff on the out side of it looked like scrappings off the side of the timeing belt.

Image

rust and corrosion debris on the inside. 120,000klm or 76,000miles on the old belt and waterpump.

Image

took water pump off,black scungy stuff on the out side of it looked like scrappings off the side of the timeing belt.

Image

New pump ready to install,be aware there is a similar pump, with out the guard flange,for different series,spec cars.

Image

now on to the Tensioner

Image

The bearing is stuffed.Repco quoted $550 for the auto tensioner complete,lucky?for us no supplier had one .

Same at BNT, and Super Cheap no surprises there.

Image

Gave it a serious whacking with the socket,to dislodge remove it.

no hope of moving it,after taking it to the Guru's at Andar front shop down on the wharf.consensus of opinion was,it has a standard bearing in it,but good luck getting it out,of the injected plastic!(moulding of the tensioner wheel).

Image

After knocking off for,lunch took the bearing to my shed and studied how it was made and assembled.

As the Book of Lies says,assembly is the reverse of dismantling.

Looking carefully at the bearing,and measuring the out side edge,we could see how much was embedded in the plastic.

So using the drill press,and a decent P@H hole saw,gently removed about 2mm of plastic encasing one side only of the plastic,tensioner wheel.

Image

using this stuff (locktite),glued the new bearing into place.

Image

"That will never work" try to explain thermal shock,differential expansion rates,

to a Speights drinker! How ever the twink episode was still in the air,so easier to show than discuss.

Put the bearing in the freezer,put the plastic bearing, in missus best dish, and hot water.

After a cup of coffee using same water! who says men cann't muti task.

Ready with the Locktite Bearing adhesive,glue the bearing into place.

Put the bearing in the freezer,put the plastic bearing, in missus best dish, and hot water.

After a cup of coffee using same water! who says men cann't muti task.

Ready with the Locktite Bearing adhesive,glue the bearing into place.

Image

A possible saving of approx $500 on quoted,total auto tensioner replacement.
not that we are in a position to be reamed by price gouging.

Image

Auto tensioner with new bearing inserted.how to guide above.

Image

Bit of a worry when you find this s**t in your engine block/radiator

Image

Mates Covered work shop,with a tarp under to catch all those things that go boinging off. minimum is a concrete pad under a shady tree.

this is absolutely luxury compared to my gravel carport!

Image

Getting to the finishing gate,just the double,triple checking to do,and the radiator /heater engine/block coolant refill.

Image

Old Accessory belt at 76,000miles or 120,000klm
don't know how much longer it would have lasted,but if it broke, no suspension,no brakes,no power steering

Image

so if your Klms/miles are getting up there,put a accessory belt in the boot.

not that I'm paranoid!

Image

Plastic bottle with bottom cut off,and insulation/plumbers tape around screw bit,is for jamming in the radiator fill/overflow tank,to raise the water level above the hieght of the heater taps and the bleed valves.

Image

We could not see any much/damage to the teeth of cam belt,but after showing it around,opinions varied from(looks okay)to struth thats knackered.

Examining the out side of the water pump,reveled a suspicious black scunge apparently from the cam belt that may have been caused by the worn auto tensioner pulley wheel.

the amount of wear on the side and the back of the belt, meant that in my view it was seriously worn (60%)and hey its my car!
Last edited by kevlights on 23 Nov 2010, 05:51, edited 5 times in total.
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 49532
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: Paggers
My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
x 6163
Contact:

Post by CitroJim »

The last photo worries me greatly...

I hope the drill bit is being used neither to undo the crank pulley bolt nor tighten it.

The timing hole is on the outside of the dual mass pulley and doing either of the above jobs is a good way to wreck the pulley. The bond between inner and outer is likely to break down.

The best way to undo the pulley bolt is to pop the car into fifth gear and apply the brakes. On a petrol engine this bolt is only torqued to 80 ft lb or so.

Also, never rely on this hole for timing. Invariably, because it's on the outside annulus, it does slip over time with respect to the inner and the timing hole ends up in a different place.

I use an old solid pulley from a scrap 205 for timing purposes.
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
kevlights
Posts: 7
Joined: 14 Nov 2010, 00:17
Location: Timaru
My Cars:

Post by kevlights »

yes Jim you are quite right,the cush drive crank pulley is very easily damaged,some have been known to have rotated in use and thus the timing will be at risk if used as the locking guide.

i did not know about the solid crankshaft pulley,but it appears we got away with the way we did the job,as the car runs fine.!

I think it was your guide we used to give us the confidence to do the job!

Good point about the crankshaft pulley.

As an aside we could not get our crank pulley bolt off,even with 220 ft Ibs on the rattle gun,and had to resort to Butcher/dodge as described in the Fast frog thread.

Keep up the good work regards Kev
kevlights
Posts: 7
Joined: 14 Nov 2010, 00:17
Location: Timaru
My Cars:

cam belt and related info for Xantias

Post by kevlights »

http://www.shanescitshed.com/xantia/cha ... ambelt.htm

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... 3f4a1e0c15

http://www.attfield.dircon.co.uk/Things ... %20BoL.pdf

info from http://attfield.dir.co.uk
and from CitroJim (John Eastment)


If you look closely at the sprockets, the cam one has a little dot on one of the pokey out bits and the crank one as a little dot on one of the pokey in bits so if you only twink those two you can't go wrong. Some belts are even pre-twinked to correspond with the dots.

these links and good advice,helped us go ahead and change the cambelt,,accessory belt and tensioner on our

1993 petrol Xantia 120,000klm auto Si

Took us two days in total,should take you less time as we have made all the mistakes for you!!

Good luck and regards from NZ,Cheers Kev

AVOID ACCIDENTS,DO THINGS ON PURPOSE!
Last edited by kevlights on 23 Nov 2010, 05:54, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
spider
Posts: 3949
Joined: 05 Jan 2010, 14:28
Location: Derby.
My Cars: Soon, I hope...
x 77
Contact:

Post by spider »

You could also get / make something to fit in the flywheel teeth too, to assist with holding the engine still.
Andy.

91 205D-Turbo, gone but still missed
02 106D, TUD5B, gone but not really missed apart from the MPG
Post Reply