Clutch Cable

Guru Meditation · Post by **Guru Meditation** » 17 Jun 2003, 14:46

Hi,
I changed my clutch cable yesterday because my clutch pedal was very squeaky and not very smooth. Got the new cable on (had to remove the pedal to get that God forsaken clip on!) adjusted the clutch but now I have a big problem. The clutch still squeaks loudly (must be the clutch itself) but worse the pedal is now even heavier (it wasn't light before but it was bearable) now it pulls my lower back to press the pedal-not good. The pedal does feel a bit smoother now but it is very heavy.
So what could cause the clutch to get heavier just by fitting a new cable? I followed the routing of the original cable (straight down from bulkhead, through support behind engine, parallel with the engine subframe, back up through two more guides then into the clutch mechanism on the gear box. I'm not aware of having twisted it while fitting or anything but could I have possibly done this? I'll go back and check if necessary. I realise a new cable isn't going to make the clutch nice and light (must be the clutch mech that is heavy) but the clutch is way to heavy now.
Cheers
Guru Meditation.

alan s · Post by **alan s** » 17 Jun 2003, 17:59

I don't remember which model you have, but on some CXs the actual pedal had a return spring that actually was fitted about face to the way you would expect, hence whenever anyone had the pedal box off or did a cable, they put it on about face & created this problem. The signs of it being wrong was the pedal sat too high hence it became a leverage problem more than anything else.
May be worthy of some investigation.
Alan S

Guru Meditation · Post by **Guru Meditation** » 17 Jun 2003, 20:19

Hi, my clutch pedal has spring which on my ZX TD forces the pedal towards the floor ie assists with pressing the clutch (very, very slightly) which was removed while taking the pedal off but I have put it back on the correct way. Maybe I'll take the pedal off again and give it a good lubing up with grease. Just can't understand how it could get so much heavier just changing the cable. Maybe the cable isn't quite routed correctly.
Guru Meditation.

alan s · Post by **alan s** » 18 Jun 2003, 03:45

If I read you correctly, then you replaced it still with downward pressure? If so that's the way it should be & it is when it is put with pressure upwards that the tighteness can start.
If the system of rods & bushes in the pedal box is as it is on the CX then partial seizure in there is quite common as is incorrect routing of the cable but I think you said this has already been checked & was OK.
Alan S

Guru Meditation · Post by **Guru Meditation** » 18 Jun 2003, 04:12

You have read correctly. I've had another play around with it tonight the cable is all correctly routed etc it's probably just the clutch mech itself. I stood over the car while someone else pressed the clutch pedal and there is a VERY vicious squeaking coming from the release arm area. I seem to have one of those dodgy 'pull type' clutches where the outer cable does the work and the inner is anchored, notorious for going s@it heavy.
Cheers
Guru meditation

Post by **Jon** » 18 Jun 2003, 14:31

Yes, the ZX and Xantia TD have a pull clutch, its a bit of a weird one as the release bearing is mounted on the cover plate as opposed to the first motion shaft of the g/box which is the norm.

The clutches get heavy with age as the bearing tries to force it way through the plate fingers!
They get heavier and heavier, and if left go bang! as the release bearing makes a bid for freedom.
Looks like might be time to put a clutch in soon.
Handy hint. Remove the clutch lever arm BEFORE you try and take the g/box out.

Guru Meditation · Post by **Guru Meditation** » 18 Jun 2003, 16:22

Thanks for the advice. What parts do I need to change and what procedures do I need to follow etc to ensure I have a nice light clutch after I finish the clutch job? I gather I will need to change more than just the friction plates.
Also is it possible to easily convert to the more conventional push type clutch?
Guru Meditation

Post by **Jon** » 18 Jun 2003, 16:50

you need a clutch kit as per picture above. £83.50 N18966
I would not think that conversion to another type of clutch is possible.
Anyway, this system is fairly reliable. Did a clutch on a ZX TD at 108,000 and the car had been used for towing, and it was in good condition, just a bit heavy. Clutch in my ZX is the original at 116,000, can't really grumble at that.
(my mate has a Mondeo Zetec which managed a stunning 23,000 miles before the clutch started slipping!!!!!!)[:0][^]

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » 18 Jun 2003, 20:19

Many years ago I fitted a good non-genuine cable to a Renault 21 with disasterous results.
The cable was a most impressive looking thing with bits of rubber and plastic all over the place which really only made it more difficult to fit. All was well but it felt a bit stiff when fitted. Over a week it seized to such an extent that I could only change gear with dificulty, and then broke the plastic self adjuster ratchet mechanism, and believe it or not the top of the speedo cable behind the dash.
Cost me a genuine cable and a clutch pedal of all things! Speedo - well pushed it back and car went for another 30,000!
No squeeks though.
Jeremy

Guru Meditation · Post by **Guru Meditation** » 18 Jun 2003, 20:59

I did wonder about changing the cable again as although the clutch was quite heavy before I changed the cable on monday it has definately increased in weight substantially with the new cable. I can only think either the cable itself is causing the problem or maybe something happened to the clutch as when I removed the old cable it is the first time in ages that the pressure on the clutch release arm has been fully released.
I used a cable I bought from A/S (GSF now!) it was labelled up 'DTE' and looked identical to the old one. Maybe I should buy a Citroen one (probably £30!)
Guru Meditation

Dave Burns · Post by **Dave Burns** » 18 Jun 2003, 23:46

You can change over to a conventional 1.9D clutch quite easily, you would require a new cable, release arm and shaft, the complete 1.9D three piece clutch kit, not sure about the flywheel as driven plate diameters are slightly different with an extra 15mm on the TD.
It might be unwise to do so however because the extra torque from the TD may cause the clutch to slip, after all they don't put the pull type in the TD's for no reason, for them to use it it must be capable of applying a much higher clamping force.
Once changed the pull type clutch will be nice and light so on that score there wouldn't be any gain in swaping over, not for around another 70,000 miles that is when it all starts again[:(]
What ever you do be sure to fit new nylon bushes for the release arm shaft to run in while the box is out, they cost peanuts from a main dealer, don't think GSF do them.
Dave

NiSk · Post by **NiSk** » 19 Jun 2003, 03:39

My '93 XM TD12 is still on it's original clutch - after 480 000 km!
Not bad eh? (except for the motor factors!)
//NiSk

Guru Meditation · Post by **Guru Meditation** » 19 Jun 2003, 04:23

Cheers for the advice. For some reason I've got it in my head that pull clutch is bad but so long as it is light after I've changed the clutch then no probs with that-don't really think I'd want to reduce my friction plate by 15mm in diameter

Damn it changing the clutch looks like a profoundly difficult job but I don't trust those monkeys at Mr Clutch or such similar to do it, I'd rather do it myself know the jobs done properly-knuckles heal after all.
Guru Meditation

Post by **Jon** » 19 Jun 2003, 14:24

Agree 100% with Dave Burns about the clutch release arm shaft bushes.
We don't do 'em here but at Citroen they are
217521 Top £0.88p
217520 Lower £0.94
For the sake of a couple of quid whilst you've got the box out, always change these as they become worn over time, leading to the heavy clutch syndrome.
For those who have not done this job before you should also change both the driveshafts seals, and also check or change the first motion shaft seal if it shows any sign of weeping. This will prevent the new clutch becoming contaminated by gearbox oil.

Guru Meditation · Post by **Guru Meditation** » 19 Jun 2003, 16:59

Don't worry if I do it I'll make sure I change every damn component no way will I be wanting to tackle the job a second time any time soon I'm sure!
Guru Meditation