Xantia HDI starter motor ?

[HDI]

LOL !! I was thinking of making provision for shoving in a hand held air starter, ala F1 !!

Actually, removing the starter is easy, it's all the bits around it that are the problem !! Air box, boost hose, etc, etc !

[HDI]

Update and job done !

Well the starter motor finally died yesterday so I've had 2 days with the Xantia disabled !
The 2 very worn brushes just couldn't contact the commutator with enough pressure to carry the starting current, which then results in a vicious circle of heating up, shedding more carbon, less contact and so on until they eventually won't work at all.
Additionally the solenoid had failed too ! I ordered new brushes from Wood Auto, they arrived this morning and were exactly correct, but trying to find a solenoid was a real pain.
So much calling around this morning eventually found someone not too far away who really knew their job ! Picked up a new solenoid at 2 PM and also had them weld the the terminations on the negative brushes to the brush holder, something I couldn't have done this myself as it needs a machine like a spot welder.
Back home to reassemble, after a bit of cleaning up, lubing the planetary gears at the drive end, cleaning the commutator with solvent, the motor went back together fairly easily after a bit of a juggle with trying to persuade 4 new brushes around the commutator !

Threw it back on the car, quick test start and it was back to as new cranking speed !! Ta Da !!

In summary, this would have been a doddle of a job if I hadn't waited too long and had the starter fail on me and I had been able to find the parts easily. So I had some inconvenience and messing about but have saved about half the cost of a new starter but at least I know it's been done properly.

[handyman]

Glad to see you got your starter motor sorted. I got an email back today from my sources and it seems that the Mitsubishi starters fitted to the Xantia HDi only have one part reference, unlike the Bosch or Valeo fitments.

Hence, there is only one brush pack available (typical Japanese logic) for this starter. Citroen do list it still but at £31.00 plus VAT.

You got a good deal from Woods.

H

[addo]

Out of curiosity, what reference was the solenoid? Costly?

I'd have been tempted to buy a used Valeo or Bosch and just rebuild that.

[handyman]

The firm I use to do all my motor and alternator rewinds reckon the Mitsubishi starter motor is far superior to either the equivalent Valeo or Bosch units. They show less wear and survive much higher mileages.

I have changed and rebuilt a few Xantia and ZX starters, amongst others, and it always seems to be Valeo or Bosch units that have more faults or require more parts.

My CX has a Mitsubishi starter motor and that never fails, mind you, its not even run in yet.

H

[addo]

The Mitsu is a four-brush unit from what our man said; that will definitely help with durability. They're dear as poison here; even a new Valeo is £150 plus local freight.

I find the Mitsubishi alternators very reliable, while I live in dread of the Xantia's Valeo one failing on me.

[HDI]

Yes, I have to say I was surprised at the lack of wear on the commutator, probably a result of the 4 brush set up. The bearings at either end are totally fine as are the planetary gears. Even the drive pinion is good for some years yet !
I think the solenoid failed due to the repeated attempted start strain as the brushes caused the starter to struggle more and more.
Brush set was £5.92 + vat and post from Woods, the solenoid was £22.50 + vat from a local auto electrical place.
I have references for both at home so will post those up soon as.
The only issue with replacing the brushes was having the terminations of the negative brushes welded to the brush holder plate, that would need an auto electric place to do it.
Other than a bit of lateral thinking to place the brush holder back over the commutator with the new much longer brushes in place it is a fairly easy DIY job. The Mitsubishi motor is well worth the effort.

[HDI]

Couple of members have asked for the brush and solenoid part #'s so here they are,

Brushes from WoodAuto, SBR 5566

Solenoid from a local Auto Electrical place, 7550 DA.

The solenoid is a universal pattern replacement but apart from having a different termination for the solenoid it works perfectly. You just need to change the termination for the solenoid from a ring type to a 1/4 spade type.

I can report the starter is still working as good as new after almost 6 months, good grief, time flies !

[Xantidote]

Is the Mitsu starter unique to certain engines, or a straight substitute for Bosch & Valeo units?

[HDI]

Don't think so, there are Bosch and Valeo units listed for the HDI.
Obviously parts for Mitsubishi starters are not compatible with other makes.

[romik]

I got a new battery, yet in the mornings it recently started playing up, takes a while to start engine, as if battery is losing charge. Is that a symptom of a srarter motor being on the way out?

[myglaren]

I think that the battery is being overtaxed by either starter problems or deteriorated cabling/terminals.

[HDI]

I got a new battery, yet in the mornings it recently started playing up, takes a while to start engine, as if battery is losing charge. Is that a symptom of a srarter motor being on the way out?

This was the symptom on mine for a while before the starter motor eventually failed. I too replaced the battery, on assumption rather than testing Do check the battery cable terminations though, they are a known problem area. After starting feel them, if they are warm or hot they have gone high resistance and will need replacing.

[romik]

Thanks will look into this.