Jacking up XUD engine

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

Post Reply
the_weaver
Posts: 438
Joined: 13 May 2008, 00:01
Location: UK
My Cars:

Jacking up XUD engine

Post by the_weaver »

Hi folks

My car is a ZX 1.9D.

When removing the right-hand (offside) top engine mount (for cambelt access) the Haynes manual says you're supposed to support the weight of the engine under the sump using a trolley jack and block of wood. It doesn't say how big the block of wood should be though. I've got a block of wood (softwood) that's two inches thick and the same size as the bottom of the sump - that's nine inches by fourteen inches by two inches thick. Is that thick enough? I'm going to jack it up on the cambelt side of the sump, about a quarter of the way along. Should I only be jacking the sump in the middle or can I do it a quarter of the way from one end?

I assume that most people use a smaller block of wood that covers half the sump so you don't have the problem of the sump plug getting in the way and the raised bit in the middle of the sump getting in the way. Is a block of wood that covers half the sump ok? My sump is a bit rusty on the cambelt side. It seems solid enough when I press it so I'll do the jacking and hope for the best but I thought I'd get a piece of wood that covers the whole area of the sump to spread the load out as much as possible. I will make a hole to accommodate the sump plug.

The bottom of the sump and engine is angled back. Is there much chance of the engine slipping off the jack? I can see that the lower engine mounting at the rear of the block holds the engine in place so I hope that's enough to stop the engine slipping off. I've got a Halfords 2.5 tonne trolley jack. The head of the jack is smaller than a professional garage jack. Will this be a problem? How much does the engine weigh? Is there any danger of the wood splitting? As the wood is angled only the edge of the jack head contacts the wood. This is good as the jack head digs into the wood and stops it slipping but it's bad because it puts a lot of force on a small area of the wood.

The Haynes manual mentions putting a steel rod between the alternator mounting bracket and the front bodywork of the car to prevent the engine from tilting backwards when the engine mount is removed. It says "use a stout rod" but it doesn't say how thick. The rod is just bent around the bodywork and the alternator mounting. I'm a bit concerned about this as I don't know how much weight then engine is going to put on the rod and whether my efforts in bending the rod are going to be good enough to hold the engine. I've got visions of the bent rod straightening itself as soon as I remove the mount. How much force does the engine need to pull it back if it tilts backwards? Can I pull it back into place on my own using a rope? Is there a problem with the engine tilting backwards? Should I just let it tilt and then pull it back with a rope when I'm ready to put the mount back on?

I'll make a rod but I've also got a ratchet tie-down strap that's pretty strong. It's the sort of thing that can hold beds on roof racks. I think I'll use the tie-down strap as well as the rod as a backup. Can I put this though the lifting eye that's on the engine in the area of the cambelt or does this lifting eye come loose when the engine mounting is unbolted? Can I put the strap around the exhaust manifold?

Paul
User avatar
xantia_v6
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 9052
Joined: 09 Nov 2005, 22:03
Location: France or NewZealand
Lexia Available: Yes
My Cars: -
1997 Citroen Xantia V6 (France)
1999 Citroen XM V6 ES9 (France)
2011 Peugeot 308 CC THP 155 (NZ)
1975 Jaguar XJ-S pre-HE (NZ)
x 825

Post by xantia_v6 »

To keep the problem in perspective, your engine probably doesn't weigh more than a couple of heavy people, so think about whether whatever support you are using would support you and a fat friend :wink:

Jacking the engine under a sump requires spreading the stress over (say) 20 square inches, but you should have the piece of wood going al the way across the sump (in any direction), so that the load can be taken by the edges, not the middle of the sump.

You tiedown alone (properly secured) should be adequate to control the rearward motion of the engine.
citroenxm
Posts: 8061
Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto

2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Post by citroenxm »

Ive never used a block of wood on the sump... I found if you place the trolly jack under the rear most corner of the sump, just ahead of the lower engine mount, you find the engine will NOT move much at all, and will tilt forward and backward easyilly to get the mount out the way....

Paul
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
mark21td
Posts: 268
Joined: 07 Apr 2009, 13:27
Location: Heathrow
My Cars:
x 1

Post by mark21td »

You're worrying to much, I use a small bit of 2"x1" and just let the engine tilt as it wonts to,
that said I've never done a ZX.
99 406 LX HDI 90 estate
99 C250TD sport estate
01 306 HDI 90 meridian estate
Brew my own biodiesel

http://www.shorewasteoil.xtreemhost.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
citroenxm
Posts: 8061
Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto

2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Post by citroenxm »

The type of car is irrelevent, the XUD is the same in any car its in :lol:

Paul
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
citronut
Posts: 10937
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 00:46
Location: United Kingdom east sussex
My Cars:
x 92

Post by citronut »

i always place a piece of wood about 4"x2" and about 10inch's long on the head of my trolley jack, and ocross the cam belt cornner of the sump and across under the lower engine mout,

this way it stops the engine tiltting the wrong way

regards malcolm
the_weaver
Posts: 438
Joined: 13 May 2008, 00:01
Location: UK
My Cars:

Post by the_weaver »

Thanks for the replies. I think I am worrying too much about this. If the engine only weighs as much as two fat blokes then it should be easy enough to jack it up safely. If I imagine that the sump is like a kitchen sink with two fat blokes standing on it then I should be able to do it easily. Thanks for the tip about using the rear mounting to stop the engine tilting. I might extend the wood onto this if it will reach.

Paul
jgra1
(Donor 2021)
Posts: 4625
Joined: 27 Nov 2005, 19:07
Location: Kent / Susssex
My Cars: 2010 C5 X7 2.0 hdi 160 exc auto
MG TF 135
Boxer II 2.2 camper conversion
BMW R1200RT
BMW K1300 R
Honda V F R 800 5thG / MT500 Armstrong
x 39

Post by jgra1 »

Paul dont forget also, that two fat blokes maybe the engine weight, but your only tipping it from one end.. your probably only lifting one medium sized bloke :D
citronut
Posts: 10937
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 00:46
Location: United Kingdom east sussex
My Cars:
x 92

Post by citronut »

is that anything like a large girl or small cattle, pull d uder one,

regards malcolm
the_weaver
Posts: 438
Joined: 13 May 2008, 00:01
Location: UK
My Cars:

Post by the_weaver »

Modern engines are lighter than I thought. I used to look at engines fitted to engine stands by just one mounting and wonder if that was safe and whether the engine was suffering. I used to think the stands looked too flimsy for the job they did.

Paul
User avatar
Old-Guy
Posts: 1798
Joined: 11 Sep 2008, 12:08
Location: Gloucestershire
My Cars: 2011 Grand C4 Picasso VTR+ 1.6HDi in Kyanos Blue
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
x 17

Post by Old-Guy »

I also use Malcolm's method. In a Xantia, where there's very little clearance between the top of the cam-belt cover and the bulkhead, it pays to CAREFULLY lower the engine by an inch or two so that it leans forwards slightly.

I wouldn't rely on a trolley jack overnight - they can have a nasty habit of sinking very slowly! :shock:
2011 Grand C4 Picasso VTR+ 1.6HDi in Kyanos Blue
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - after 11 years now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
User avatar
spider
Posts: 3949
Joined: 05 Jan 2010, 14:28
Location: Derby.
My Cars: Soon, I hope...
x 77
Contact:

Post by spider »

I just use a small trolley jack with a piece of wood about 3x3 on that. Not had any issues and done this for years.

Regarding leaving it overnight, I'd agree not to leave it on a jack. Last time I had to leave it (I guess I could of left it hanging but that's not ideal for long, better suited for some quick access) , I just used a small axle stand with another piece of wood on it.

I could not at the time re-fit the mounting temporarily as I had the block part of it (with the powerful tensioner plunger) off and in my shed for de-seizing session :D
Andy.

91 205D-Turbo, gone but still missed
02 106D, TUD5B, gone but not really missed apart from the MPG
Post Reply