Cooling system diagram for 1998 Mk2 citroen xantia 1.9 TD

falling-out-with-my-car · Post by **falling-out-with-my-car** » 18 Jun 2010, 18:48

Hi,

can anyone please point me to a cooling system diagram for a 1998 Mk2

Citroen Xantia?

a Mk1 will do if not< I am looking for the best way to fit a heat exchanger for running on veg oil.

Thanks in advance.

Nigel.

Post by **CitroJim** » 18 Jun 2010, 20:27

pop it in a heater hose Nigel.. It's the only place to put it. Choose the flow pipe, the one that comes off the metal pipe on the vacuum pump end of the cylinder head.

falling-out-with-my-car · Post by **falling-out-with-my-car** » 19 Jun 2010, 13:48

Jim,

Thanks for identifiying the flow pipe for me it has been a difficult enough task in recent times trying to find that little miniscule of info.

Ive been reading the description of the cooling system in the bol and it seems that it takes quite a while to heat the heater matrix as the engine block is heated first.

what I would like to try is plumbing the heat exchanger (now I have bought it from Dieselveg) into the block circulating system so that the exchanger heats up with the engine block and not later on with the heater matrix, I think this would make the veg oil heat exchanger far more efficent than plumbing it into the heater matrix which doesnt heat up until after the engine block.

I note that the oil cooler heats up on the engine block circuit but thats quite a touchy componant to mess with and from my experience with the BX similar oil cooler playing around with the pipework can loosen the pressed in steel pipes behind the oil filter.

this is why I would like to nail down a diagram if at all possible please?

I am also looking at ways to heat the heat exchanger electrically at first if plumbing into the heater matrix circuit is the only option.
There are some very attractive heat pads available that run of of a 12 dc battery and have enough wattage to heat the heat echanger in say 5 or 6 mins when the weather is particularly cold.

However it would be much easier to explore connecting the exchanger into the engine block heating circuit first.

regards Nigel.

MikeT · Post by **MikeT** » 19 Jun 2010, 14:01

Hi Nigel,

I notice you're still intent on heating your WVO? I'm sure I don't need to repeat my concerns over this but am curious as to your thoughts on dilution as an option?

A friend who produces WVO tells me he dilutes his with 5-10% unleaded. Is this not an acceptable alternative for you?

Post by **CitroJim** » 19 Jun 2010, 22:06

The matrix should be the first to receive heat Nigel and it's effectively plumbed into the bypass circuit and flows even when the thermostat is shut.

The moment the engine produces warm water it should appear in the matrix. If not, your thermostat is suspect.

All things being equal, the matrix is the first thing to warm up. This is intentional.

This is not the case with the oil cooler as it's plumbed into the top hose effectively and flows only when the cooling system is hot and the thermostat open. To do otherwise would risk overcooling the oil and that's not good. In fact the cooler is also a heater for the oil under certain circumstances.

So, still best to plumb into the matrix hoses. This is where the vapouriser heaters are always plumbed on LPG conversions.

falling-out-with-my-car · Post by **falling-out-with-my-car** » 20 Jun 2010, 19:07

MikeT wrote:Hi Nigel,

I notice you're still intent on heating your WVO? I'm sure I don't need to repeat my concerns over this but am curious as to your thoughts on dilution as an option?

A friend who produces WVO tells me he dilutes his with 5-10% unleaded. Is this not an acceptable alternative for you?

thats fine Mike if you want to keep paying out for fossil fuels all year round. the other reason for this conversion is my Bosch pump doesnt like being hit by cold Thick veg oil even when the pump is warm the engine still hunts, I have been advised that fitting the H/E will probably cure this problem, as changing the timing wont because my bosch pump is wired to the ECU.

this is just half of a two tank conversion and should prolong the life of the pump putting it under a lot less strain than feeding it cold thick oil. I am playing around with 2 stroke oil as an addative at the moment to try to improve lubrication to the pump. there does seem to be a slight
improvement in mileage. from 55 mpg to 61 mpg on a run.
No more smoke on start up from cold either.

regards Nigel.

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 20 Jun 2010, 20:20

Nigel, if you're going to be plumbing it into the heater matrix feed, would it also be a good oppertunity for some preventative work (unless you've already done it) and replace the heater matrix?

Not sure what your heat exchanger looks like, but could it be mounted down the back of the engine, where it would be warmer?

You mention a 2 tank conversion, I'm intreagued as to what non-fossil fuel you'll be putting in the 2nd tank, SVO perhaps?

falling-out-with-my-car · Post by **falling-out-with-my-car** » 21 Jun 2010, 04:46

Xac,

whats the point replacing something that isnt broken yet? have you never heard the phrase? "if it aint broke don't fix it"

above I said it's only half of a two tank system "installing a heat exchanger", I am currently running 1 micron filtered/de-watered wvo plus 1% non-synth two stroke oil.

I bought the Dieselveg H/E I think the order No is WT01ALO. it is a very small aluminium flat plate heat exchanger.

I'm not twin tanking as I said above I'm trying to get away from feeding the car with dino and Rug esspecially in the summer months, just trying to loose the hunting when she's warmed up.

regards Nigel.

falling-out-with-my-car · Post by **falling-out-with-my-car** » 21 Jun 2010, 04:56

CitroJim wrote:The matrix should be the first to receive heat Nigel and it's effectively plumbed into the bypass circuit and flows even when the thermostat is shut.

The moment the engine produces warm water it should appear in the matrix. If not, your thermostat is suspect.

All things being equal, the matrix is the first thing to warm up. This is intentional.

This is not the case with the oil cooler as it's plumbed into the top hose effectively and flows only when the cooling system is hot and the thermostat open. To do otherwise would risk overcooling the oil and that's not good. In fact the cooler is also a heater for the oil under certain circumstances.

So, still best to plumb into the matrix hoses. This is where the vapouriser heaters are always plumbed on LPG conversions.

thanks Jim,

Ive been eyeing the job today with the H/e in position under the bonnet and fitting it in the recommended position on the right hand end of the engine head seems just about the most favourable position, the oil cooler/heater pipes dont seem to have enough straight sections in them to tee into anyway and the Bol must be incorrect in its explanation of the cooling system because it significantly differs from your own.
I shall probably plumb for the heater matrix hoses anyway thanks. excuse the pun.

regards Nigel.

falling-out-with-my-car · Post by **falling-out-with-my-car** » 22 Jun 2010, 10:01

I would like to point out that, I have just fitted the 20 micron filter I bought with my Heat exchanger, just before the xantias own filter.

this new filter is about 8 inches long and 2 inches in diameter, with a flushable plastic screen inside it.

I did start to wonder why I bothered to buy such a big filter but it has made a significant diffenence to throttle response having a resoviour of veg oil just before the cars filter housing.

I dont need any where near as much throttle to drive at the same speeds.

this confirms my suspicions that the pump was under unecessary strain pumping thick veg oil. I expect to see a futher improovement once the Heat exchanger is fitted to the car.

regards Nigel.

falling-out-with-my-car · Post by **falling-out-with-my-car** » 23 Jun 2010, 18:09

Well the heat exchanger is in and doing its job very nicely with the filtered waste veg oil. throttle response is just like running on diesel it would appear that there is some evidence to support the fact that even a Bosch pump suffers running cold vegetable oil through it. ( I saw my fathers bosch pump leaking on veg).

I used to have to press the throttle pedal down about 2/3's to get any decent level of accelleration even with a warm engine, now I only need about 1/4 travel on the pedal.

if I want to accelerate quickly I can now dump the pedal on the floor reach the desired speed and back off of the pedal still accelerating, this was never possible without the veg oil being heated by the heat exchanger.

Oh and Jim I pondered and pondered with the idea of plumbing the H/e into the heater matrix lines, one of which was pretty hard to get at so I plumbed it into the oil cooler lines and it works a treat no problem at all and the tees are easily accessable should I need to get to them even with a hot engine, no chance of geting your hands down the back of a hot xantia engine without loosing some layers of skin.

the hunting engine syndrome I had when the engine was warm running on cold veg oil has gone completely, the engine even idles faster just like running on diesel.

the heat exchanger was a little more expensive going to dieselveg but I reckon its probably well worth the money at the end of the day.

you only need to see one leaking pump with veg oil pouring from the seals and its enough to make you consider what strain the pumps must be under running cold thick veg oil through them.

I shall continue to add my usual slick 50 solutions diesel anti-freeze during the winter time and when its very very cold 5% petrol.

until I work out how to heat the exchanger electrically in the winter time for starting only.

regards Nigel.