Got a loud rattle around the serpentine/aux belt area[FIXED]

HDI Dave · Post by **HDI Dave** » 15 May 2010, 21:49

As above,Got a loud rattle around the serpentine belt area..fed up smiley...Thought it was a cold/sticking valve etc,as it seemd to clear up on a short drive (2 mile),but on tickover,it's rattling,loudish.Sounds like an old ford tappet sound,when the cam's gone..

It's just started happening.

Thinking timing belt idler pulley,looks like it's vibrating,should it?but it had a new belt kit + tensioners apparently (got good recentish service/garage records for the car),28k ago.

Any ideas?

Cheers,Dave.[/b]

Post by **CitroJim** » 15 May 2010, 21:52

Can you see the auxiliary (serpentine) belt flapping around at all on idle Dave? Is it worse if the aircon is on?

The noise sounds like a serpentine not tensioned properly.

Was that the belt/tensioner replaced or was it the cambelt?

Xantidote · Post by **Xantidote** » 15 May 2010, 21:59

Could it be the crankshaft pulley itself? I'm assuming the 110 has the rubber sandwich pulley, rather than the solid pulley as earlier S1 models

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 15 May 2010, 22:05

Ive had a HDi CranK pully go, it sounds like that or more so a failling release bearing in the gearbox...

FIRST Test, take the Aux belt off, then run the engine again.. If it has stopped then its the crank pully.. A very common failure item on HDi's

Paul

HDI Dave · Post by **HDI Dave** » 15 May 2010, 22:12

Xantidote wrote:Could it be the crankshaft pulley itself?

I was wondering that myself.Only had a quick look,didn't want to run it long,in case it damaged it further.

Jim said"Can you see the auxiliary (serpentine) belt"
That's the one i'm describing. The cambelt will be inside the plastic cover,on the left side of the engine? sorry,my bad,don't know if that's a belt or a chain?
The noise goes away at a fastish idle,1200,that's why it seemed to clear up on the short test drive,but on idle, it's loud

"Was that the belt/tensioner replaced or was it the cambelt?"

The receipt says: Timing kit - HDI supplied + fitted, £189.50 citroen indy.

Cheers for your fast responses!

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 15 May 2010, 22:24

thats the Cam Belt inside the plastic covers..

It will be the aux belt tensioner too weak or the crank pully breaking up...

Paul

Post by **admiral51** » 15 May 2010, 23:02

Does the HDi have the spring setup that the 1.9/2.1 Td has.If so it could be the spring failing and pushing the tensioner pulley out of line and knackering the roller.
Just a thought....
Colin

Post by **CitroJim** » 16 May 2010, 07:47

It does have a spring arrangement but totally different to the 1.9/2.1TD.

It's more a radial spring and works on the same principle as a spring-loaded cambelt tensioner.

Much more reliable and workmanlike I'd say...

HDI Dave · Post by **HDI Dave** » 16 May 2010, 11:06

Well at least it's the aux belt area and not the timing belt,so that's a bonus.
The belt looks well worn..shiny with tiny cracks all over.The tensioners look all old and worn as well.Took the bottom plastic cover away for a look at the crank pulley...it's green! (light green dust,wipes off.)
And i'd just been looking at this thread
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/ ... tm?t=15983
common problem?

The pulley looks well old,but all in one piece.Which part to change!

Looks like a good plan:

"FIRST Test, take the Aux belt off, then run the engine again.. If it has stopped then its the crank pully.. A very common failure item on HDi's"

So i can just somehow take the belt off and on,without needing to line owt up on reassembly?

Cheers all,i'll see how it goes,looks like my half ripped apart sill is sidelined.hmm,wish i could swear at it in french...

HDI Dave · Post by **HDI Dave** » 19 May 2010, 13:45

Bit stuck,can't even get the belt off!
The haynes says put a socket on the top tensioner,move it away from the belt,etc etc...i can't even get a spanner on it.
I'm now thinking of getting a small ratchet strap on it,attached to the top engine mount? Is this the tensioner that needs slackening?how! lol:

or is it this one,below,i think it's got a square hole,maybe to get a small 1/4" drive or something on it which i could move it with? Can't see which way it would move though,i can't see how/where it's mounted..it just seems to hang there,in mid air.At least that bottom one's a bit more accessable.

I'm thinking the bottom / crank pulley's goosed.With the plastic cover off it's hammering away metallically down below. Hoping a g/box bearing would be more of a rumble,from my old bike engine building days.

Any ideas chaps? Cheers, Dave.

MikeT · Post by **MikeT** » 19 May 2010, 14:06

On the lower tensioner, undo the allen bolt (might need some releasing agent by the looks of the rust) and it will swivel freely (might need a nudge) around it's eccentric axis and untension the belt - slip belt off.

HDI Dave · Post by **HDI Dave** » 19 May 2010, 14:11

Cheers Mike,
right,where's me wd 40

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 19 May 2010, 14:19

Just to go over terminology.

The belt you can see in the photos is the auxilary belt AKA serpentine belt.

In your first photo the item arrowed is the auto tensioner.
In your second photo the item arrowed is the eccentric tensioner. Given how rusty it looks, I'd replace it anyway by removing the allen bolt (it's either a 6 or 8 and probably will need some persuasion).
To the left of the eccentric is the big crank pulley, which from the photo looks like it's the solid kind.

Now, on to how to remove the belt.
Look at the auto tensioner in your first photo, and at the top left corner f the pulley you'll see a dark patch/recess. This is a square hole for your ratchet.
The easiest way I've found to get at it, is to open the ECU box and gently pull out the contents so you can get to the retaining bolts in it's bottom.
If you've got your radio code, you can disconnect the battery and disconnect the ECU etc to mak removal easier.
Remove the bolts and remove he ECU box.
You should now have better access to the square hole.
I have a breaker bar with a hinged end for sockets which is ideal for the job, just fit it in the hole and press down using the inner wing beam (which the ECU box sits on) as a pivot.
With the auto tensioner pulled up out of the way, the belt can just slip off.

MikeT · Post by **MikeT** » 19 May 2010, 17:51

Hopefully, the cambelt doesn't need disturbing but before you do attack the cambelt tensioner Dave, set and lockthe timing first!

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 19 May 2010, 19:25

Run the engine with the aux belt off.
If the noise has gone away, then you know it's aux belt related, most likely the tensioners needing replacement, or the belt itself.
If the noise is still there then it's cam belt related, so lock the flywheel and cam pulley in place, remove the belt and check the tensioners.
Replace the water pump before replacing the cam belt too.

Colleague had a thrumming/rubbing noise from the belts in his 306 TD.
He'd had the cam belt changed just over a year before.
Told him to whip the aux belt off to narrow down the cause, especially as the aux belt was looking old and tired so would need replacing.
He's not mechanically minded so contacted the garage that did the cam belt, they wanted the car in and said it would be at least £300.
His gf took it to an indy who changed the aux belt which resolved the problem, cost him £70.