2.0 HDI Tuning

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Is tuning a 2.0 HDI worth-while ??

Poll ended at 22 May 2010, 11:48

Re-map
5
56%
Tuning box
4
44%
 
Total votes: 9

johnway
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2.0 HDI Tuning

Post by johnway »

Hello all,
I expect this is a well debated subject by now but I am curious about the following : If the 2.0 HDI is re-mapped to increase BHP, does this affect the CO emissions and therefore the VED ?

Now to remap vs tuning boxes : anybody out there had experiences (good or bad) of installing tuning boxes on their C5 ? I am looking at eBay of course which is glowing with good feedback on boxes costing less than £100 but I value true C5 owners opinions from this site. Has anyone opened one of these to see what is inside? Cheap tuning boxes contain a resistor only I believe so I am curious to know if others contain chips. Advice and recommendations also gratefully received.
Regards,
John.
My chariots : 2002 Pug 406 110 HDI Executive Estate 138K
1995 Citroen AX 1.0 Debut 26K
I Blame it all on my Dad!! (Sadly had to give up driving & his 2nd BX) but Mum still has a C1.
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Post by Citroenmad »

REMAP!

I have voted for remap, i would not bother with a tuning box actually.

A remap, espcially at a good place, will be far better for your car, its performance and its economy.

My SX had a tuning box when i bought it from bencowell on here. I thought i sounded a bit rough and harsh when i first drive it with the box fitted. I didnt want the box with the car and Ben removed it, i thought it sounded much better without the box, smoother. I dont know if Ben noticed the same?

Anyway, im a fan of remaps, they are certainly the way forward for engine tuning in my opinion. Yes they cost a bit more than a tunign box, but rarely is the cheap option the best, and im sure a remap will be more beneficial in the long run.

We have a 2.5TDi VW which has beed remapped, before the remap it was a very smokey thing returning around 32MPG. After the remap its much smoother running, less smoke and its MPG increased from 32 to 36 on average. Ive even had 42MPG from it on occasions, not bad for a 2.5 Caravelle with an automatic box. It would never do that before.

I say it should be done at a good place because some places install a generic 'map, now this might give similar results to a tuning box, as its not really set up for your car. The place we used and its also who we use for other jobs too, takes the data from the cars ECU, emails it down to a remapping company, who make a 'map to suit the cars current data. This is then installed and is a sort of custom remap, though its not tested on rollers before or after.

That same garage has experiemented with installing generic remaps but has not had good results, so he now only goes down this route.

Im very tempted to get my C5 remapped, i do wonder that it will be stressing the DMF more though.

I also know someone with a VW 1.4TDi who has had it custom remapped, its an absolute flyer now, increased bhp by 30bhp and had improved MPG by 5 too.

That same garage said he has recently remapped a 2.0HDi 110 C5, which produced a great result and it has totally transformed the drive of the car. So its a very tempting thing to have done and no doubt i will do soon.

Dont forget about insurance though, some companies dont insure performance mods at all. A tuning box can be seen, however not a remap .... not that im suggesting you dont tell your insurance though!
Chris
07 Citroen C6 V6 HDi Exclusive - Red
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09 Citroen C3 1.4i VTR - Silver
01 Citroen Saxo 1.1i Forte - Mango Orange
.
93 Ford Mondeo 2.0i GLX
19 Hyundai i10
steelcityuk
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Post by steelcityuk »

I had a tuning box on my Xantia 110 but wasn't impressed with it, maybe it was just junk.

The C5 110 HDi had a remap done by me sending off the original map to a tuner with a good reputation then I flashed it back onto the C5. It transformed the car, economy didn't change as far as I could tell, it pulled very hard from low revs and didn't smoke any more than it did originally (it was only in other cars headlights you could see some smoke).

The A Class A170 CDi I'm currently running has had a remap done by the same chap who did the C5, same procedure - downloaded map from car, emailed off map, remap emailed back within 2 hours and then flashed back to the ECU by me. The tuner claims to have upped the bhp from 90 to 120. Once the engine comes on boost it pulls increadibly hard for a 1.7. So hard that there's little that can outpace it outside sports cars. Generally I drive it lightly and with the use of a ScanGauge 2 I get 50MPG in mixed driving. It passed it's emissions easily with a 1 shot fast pass.

Don't by generic maps or from unknown sources, apart from possible engine damage, increased emission they can have the immobiliser codes disabled to allow them to be used universally.

Hope that helps.

Steve.
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Post by citroenxm »

TUNING BOX!

Ah ha CitroenMad!

Thats the box I have on a HDi Xantia!

And by god what a difference!! No reports of high fuel consumption, in fact its around the same 55 mpg.. No more excessive smoke.. and WOW does she go!

Im one for the Box's.. Once a Remap has been done it can NOT be removed.. theres still a few peoples who would NOT buy a Chipped car.. were as the Box does the same thing and then can be removed and fitted to your next car if its the same equipt engine!

I haven't noticed any excessivw noise, and she sounds just the same.. though, I found it a strnage one fitting inline with the Injector Harness.. Not seen one of those before.

Im VERY impressed with the Box I got from Ben.. so much that when I get the XM HDi done, ill get one fitted to her!

Paul
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
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A very sad...
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Post by Citroenmad »

The place we use for remaps keeps the original file from the car so the remap can be reversed at any time.

I didnt know you had bought the tuning box from Ben, obviously your happy with it. I didnt really try it much but i didnt want the box as it would effect my insurance. I have always been under the impression that a custom map is better than a generic box, so thats probably the route ill go for.

A remap should have my car nearing the bhp of the later 2.0HDi 16v 138, which will be very nice indeed.
Chris
07 Citroen C6 V6 HDi Exclusive - Red
07 Citroen C5 HDi VTR - Red
09 Citroen C3 1.4i VTR - Silver
01 Citroen Saxo 1.1i Forte - Mango Orange
.
93 Ford Mondeo 2.0i GLX
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Re: 2.0 HDI Tuning

Post by Homer »

johnway wrote:If the 2.0 HDI is re-mapped to increase BHP, does this affect the CO emissions and therefore the VED ?
The VED is not based on actual emissions, it's based on the manufacturers figures so it will stay the same.
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Post by cachaciero »

steelcityuk wrote:I had a tuning box on my Xantia 110 but wasn't impressed with it, maybe it was just junk.

The C5 110 HDi had a remap done by me sending off the original map to a tuner with a good reputation then I flashed it back onto the C5. It transformed the car, economy didn't change as far as I could tell, it pulled very hard from low revs and didn't smoke any more than it did originally (it was only in other cars headlights you could see some smoke).

The A Class A170 CDi I'm currently running has had a remap done by the same chap who did the C5, same procedure - downloaded map from car, emailed off map, remap emailed back within 2 hours and then flashed back to the ECU by me. The tuner claims to have upped the bhp from 90 to 120. Once the engine comes on boost it pulls increadibly hard for a 1.7. So hard that there's little that can outpace it outside sports cars. Generally I drive it lightly and with the use of a ScanGauge 2 I get 50MPG in mixed driving. It passed it's emissions easily with a 1 shot fast pass.

Don't by generic maps or from unknown sources, apart from possible engine damage, increased emission they can have the immobiliser codes disabled to allow them to be used universally.

Hope that helps.

Steve.
Hi Steve

Could you ask your tuning guy what he reckons he could do for a 2.2 Hdi ?or maybe just point me to him. An idiots guide to reading the MAP into a computer and reloading it back into the ECU would be useful too.

cachaciero
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Post by h2ocooler »

cachaciero wrote:
steelcityuk wrote:I had a tuning box on my Xantia 110 but wasn't impressed with it, maybe it was just junk.

The C5 110 HDi had a remap done by me sending off the original map to a tuner with a good reputation then I flashed it back onto the C5. It transformed the car, economy didn't change as far as I could tell, it pulled very hard from low revs and didn't smoke any more than it did originally (it was only in other cars headlights you could see some smoke).

The A Class A170 CDi I'm currently running has had a remap done by the same chap who did the C5, same procedure - downloaded map from car, emailed off map, remap emailed back within 2 hours and then flashed back to the ECU by me. The tuner claims to have upped the bhp from 90 to 120. Once the engine comes on boost it pulls increadibly hard for a 1.7. So hard that there's little that can outpace it outside sports cars. Generally I drive it lightly and with the use of a ScanGauge 2 I get 50MPG in mixed driving. It passed it's emissions easily with a 1 shot fast pass.

Don't by generic maps or from unknown sources, apart from possible engine damage, increased emission they can have the immobiliser codes disabled to allow them to be used universally.

Hope that helps.

Steve.
Hi Steve

Could you ask your tuning guy what he reckons he could do for a 2.2 Hdi ?or maybe just point me to him. An idiots guide to reading the MAP into a computer and reloading it back into the ECU would be useful too.

cachaciero
I would be interested in the 2.2 remap results too.
Rob
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evilally
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Post by evilally »

According to www.rstuning.co.uk, the 2.2 will go from 133hp/314nm to 162hp/385nm, so a pretty good gain.

There is nothing wrong with a generic map, provided it's from a reputable source, such as the above website. If your engine is 100% standard, the cost to benefit ratio of a live map is pretty poor. If you had an uprated intercooler or exhaust system, then it might be worth while.

I also fail to see how emailing away your ECU map could result in a custom map in any way. Data would have to be logged from a series of test runs first. More than likely, they ask for the original map so that they are sending you the correct map for your engine and ECU hardware to ensure they don't brick your car.

I have a neat box of tricks for my Clio. It allows me to plug in my laptop and upload a new calibration file. I can also do a series of runs on the road to capture data, email it away, and have a map made specific to my car. I can restore the standard map at any time, and also run diagnostics on the ECU and clear fault codes. I wonder if there are similar products for Peugeots?
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Post by steelcityuk »

evilally wrote:According to www.rstuning.co.uk, the 2.2 will go from 133hp/314nm to 162hp/385nm, so a pretty good gain.

There is nothing wrong with a generic map, provided it's from a reputable source, such as the above website. If your engine is 100% standard, the cost to benefit ratio of a live map is pretty poor. If you had an uprated intercooler or exhaust system, then it might be worth while.

I also fail to see how emailing away your ECU map could result in a custom map in any way. Data would have to be logged from a series of test runs first. More than likely, they ask for the original map so that they are sending you the correct map for your engine and ECU hardware to ensure they don't brick your car.

I have a neat box of tricks for my Clio. It allows me to plug in my laptop and upload a new calibration file. I can also do a series of runs on the road to capture data, email it away, and have a map made specific to my car. I can restore the standard map at any time, and also run diagnostics on the ECU and clear fault codes. I wonder if there are similar products for Peugeots?
I think you're reading things into my post I didn't put.

I don't use custom maps, it's the cars original map that has been modified. By doing this the car will start and still have the immo code enabled. It depends on what you call generic maps, a map you put on your car that isn't your original one and modified isn't a good idea, such a map will have the immo disabled to allow the engine to start. Not a good idea in this day and age.

I use a Galleto 1260 clone for uploading and downloading maps. I keep the originals so I can just reflash the car back to standard if needs be.

Just to add a bit more detail to the process, you need to understand the dangers of remapping.

You need the right tool to read and write the ECU, this usually dependent on the ECU involved not the socket type. Most DIYers use 'Galletto' tools which are clones and as such can fail entirely or corrupt your cars ECU, in some circumstances the only way out of this is a visit to a professional that can remove the chip, reflash it using a standalone programmer and refit it. Old ECUs can't be flashed such as the TCTs ECU - it's a rechip. If you upload the wrong map for your car it will usually kill it, if you're lucky you may be able to reflash back the original map. However sometimes the ECU locks and you need to visit the Pros to have the chip removed, reflashed, etc. Some cars OBD sockets aren't fully populated and you need to connect into the harness near the ECU. On all cars it's good practice to connect up a battery charger or other power source during the both reading and writing of the map, removing the cooling systems fan fuse or unplugging the fans is a good idea too. If these start up during the process it can cause a spike or a power drop that can corrupt the process.

So as you can tell from this it's not something to undertake lightly. Many back street cowboys have 'bricked' other peoples cars by not understanding the process, buying the tools and maps online then advertising as 'Tuners'.

The tuner of my maps told me that basically he advanced the injection timing, increased fuelling and added a touch of boost to keep the exhaust clean. This may sound simple but due to the number of different maps interacting you have to know how adjusting one affects the others. There's some real horror stories out there about 'tuners' that didn't.

The maps I used were provided to me on the understanding that they were for my cars and that if I messed up it was for me to sort it out.

Steve.
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timborob
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Tuning Box

Post by timborob »

I have had an interest in using a tuning box on a previous possible purchase of a Rover 45 or MG ZS and the best by far i researched was the Synergy by RoverRon which is available for most Common rail diesels.

Info Here :

http://tuning-diesels.com/Synergy1/tu3all.htm

I really like idea of the 5 year warranty and that you can transfer to your next diesel and have it updated for a very resonable price.

Does any one have one on the forum to feedback on?
Regards
Tim

03 Citroen C5 2.0 110 HDI VTR Mauritius Blue 109K
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Post by kaostheory »

I own one of these, I had it for my old 406 hdi 90.

Transformed it into a completely new car. Was truly amazing. However have never driven a car following a remap although i am interested in remapping my current citroen c5.

Rhys

P.S I used to be a memeber of mg rover forums where Ron is a highly respected and knowledgable member.
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timborob
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Post by timborob »

Hi Rhys

Its good to know the Synergy works well on the HDI engine

I will be fitting mine after the 28th Sept as thats when it will be covered on my insurance.
:D

Rover Ron doesn't quote any actual BHP/Torque increase figures as rightly every car can be different but going by other tuning box quotes I
should get around 20 bhp and 30ft lbs extra ,aswell as the needed throttle response.
Regards
Tim

03 Citroen C5 2.0 110 HDI VTR Mauritius Blue 109K
kaostheory
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Post by kaostheory »

I'm sorry i cant remember exactly where it is but there is a full write up and figures to support the synergy vs remap on the HDi on the mg-rover forums.

Definite improvements though, mpg and throttle response and power.

Rhys
kaostheory
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Post by kaostheory »

http://forums.mg-rover.org/showthread.php?t=178713

Here ya go

Edit: TU3 is what the synergy used to be called.
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