ZX rear brakes job

KEB1 · Post by **KEB1** » 10 May 2010, 16:35

Hi All,

Further to my post about shoes, Haynes talks about and shows removing a thrust washer from under the rear hub nut (as does a posting on the forum) but I can't see any sign of one and the local dealer said he has never sold one, has no part number and the kit they sell doesn't include one.
Was this discontinued at some point or is it missing ? The rear breaks were overhauled by a non Citroen garage before we owned the car so it could have been left off.
I haven't got round to looking at the nearside yet as I have postponed the job as my hub puller is inadequate (bolt too short and unable to get a longer one with the right thread in the locality) for the job and so I had to order up another one.
Pity the PR-Net doesn't work for free anymore....

Cheers,

Kristian.

spider · Post by **spider** » 10 May 2010, 17:22

I know what you mean, its a large washer that sits under the 36mm rear hub nuts, Peugeot's have them too.

It's not quite a normal flat washer, it has a raised centre area. Difficult to describe. Maybe someone will have a pic.

I had a quick look but I was unable to find it either with the braking system or suspension, but I only have old Peugeot stuff anyway, although I am surprised I could not find it, I have brought them in the past, so they do exist. From memory you might have to buy a bag of 5 or something.

I'd have to assume it was left off at some point maybe ? , I have seen the odd car without them but not very often...

spider · Post by **spider** » 10 May 2010, 18:26

I think I found it, this is a Pug number though:

I should point out that pic is for a pre-facelift (pre 97) 306, but a ZX is the same car anyway

The 'big washer' is part number: 3736 29

For reference:

Item 11 : The soft 'cover' (if it had one)
Item 71 : The actual hub nut (pic is not quite right, look at top left to see 'real' image)
Item 9 : The actual washer (373629)

The items beyond that are the bearing assembly (you can see they are grouped anyway)

Ask your part dealer to look under > Restyling (body NOT mechanical!) > Suspension / Engine / Electricity > Leaf Springs Rear >

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 10 May 2010, 20:48

if your puller is the type with a large centre bolt and outter fixing points to atatch to the wheel bolt points, then you could place a small enough socket or similar on the centre/end of the stub axle with a piece of steel on the outter end of it, then use your puller against that,

be aware that you might damage some of the shoe retaining clips whilst pulling the drum's off, if so you will need a fitting kit,

also mind you dont loose the tinny stainless steel blade which lock's the self adjuster ratchet, that is if you have bendix rear brakes ,

as they have a habit of disapearing, then its about 50 quid or so for the adjuster kit, and you cant get that blade on its own,

the other point to whatch is the adjuster ratchets are handed, one has a laft hand thread, if fitted the wtong side the adjusters will unwind in use

regards malcolm

regards malcolm

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 10 May 2010, 21:03

ps.
here is the washer you require

Part Number Description Quantity Price excl. VAT Price incl. VAT Total incl. VAT Selection
0000373629 PLAIN WASHER 0.70 GBP 0.82 GBP 0.82 GBP

service citroen is now what was pr.net and it still is free to use the same sections as when it was pr.net,

and it is open to the public as it is to the trade,

even though i gather some have had prob's registering/login on

regards malcolm

HDI · Post by **HDI** » 10 May 2010, 22:14

I did this job on a ZX once a while ago and didn't need a puller. The drum and hub are one piece and once the nut is removed it just slides off the stub , unless the shoes are caught in the wear lip on the drum that is !!

the_weaver · Post by **the_weaver** » 10 May 2010, 22:46

I used a puller the first time I did my brakes and broke the "nails" holding the shoes on. Then I worked out the technique for getting the drums off without a puller.

The way I do it is to turn the drum about 1/8th of a turn whilst pulling it outwards as well. It will jam on the shoes and seem impossible to move. Then get a large rubber mallet and bang the drum all around it's periphery. This will reset the shoe position to the centre and the drum should free off again. Now turn it another 1/8 turn in the same direction and pull outwards. Keep repeating this and the drum should come off. You can refit the road wheel to give a bit more leverage if necessary but you might have to remove it each time to bang the drum.

Sometimes the handbrake lever inside the drum can stay on slightly and make the shoes more difficult to remove. If you look through the wheel bolt hole in the drum and shine a torch through at the same time you should be able to see the handbrake lever. Put the wheel bolt hole at the position of the 7 on the clock face. Push the handbrake lever backwards towards the rear of the car to free off the shoes. You can also grab hold of the handbrake cable where it passes from the car body to the back of the drum and waggle it up and down. This will help the cable and handbrake lever to retract if it's sticking.

It's also possible that the handbrake lever adjustment in the car has been over tightened in the past if it's been used to adjust the handbrake operation because the self adjusters are not working properly. If the handbrake cable inner seems to be tight even though the handbrake is off then you may have to slacken the adjuster nut behind the handbrake lever in the car. Look through the wheel bolt hole in the 7 position on the clock face and you should see a raised bit of metal on the handbrake lever. This needs to be resting against the brake shoe otherwise the handbrake is not fully off.

Squeaking rear brakes can be caused by the handbrake mechanism staying slightly on. My brakes used to squeak for a few yards and then free themselves. Quite often the handbrake cables can play a big part in rear brake problems. The cables rust inside and fail to release properly. The outer sheath can also rust especially if the plastic is cracked. Check for any bulging in the outers as well. I would replace the handbrake cables at the first sign of trouble.

Paul

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 11 May 2010, 07:58

your method is ok Paul (the_weaver) as long as there is no or not a lot of a lip on the brake drum working face, i find sometimes they come off with no trouble at all and other times they take quite a time to remove,

once off i clean/grind the lips off of the drums, this aids re/assebly and you can manualy adjust the adjuters up more or less as fare as they need to be before re/fitting the drum,

regards malcolm

KEB1 · Post by **KEB1** » 11 May 2010, 21:17

Hi Guys,

Many thanks for all the replies. I have got the drum off using a new puller and in fact the washer was there, but so stuck to the stub axle that it wasn't readily apparent until the drum moved.
All my hopes that a clean round was all that was required came to nothing as the shoes are quite worn and the cylinder is a bit leaky

I will have to fit the full Citroen kit and I will have to prevail upon the suppler of the pattern part to take them back. It doesn't look as though I could have transferred the operating lever from the old shoes to the new as at the moment, it looks as though the swivel pin is non removable from the old shoes. However I will have a clean up and a closer look.

Cheers,

Kristian.

the_weaver · Post by **the_weaver** » 11 May 2010, 23:51

If the cylinders are a bit leaky then don't do what I did which was to pull the cylinder out a little bit to see if they were corroded. As I did this I heard air being sucked into the system. Sure enough I then had a brake pedal that went to the floor and had to be pumped about three times to get any braking. If you disturb slightly leaky cylinders they can get much worse. New cylinders and fluid followed by bleeding is the solution.

With regard to the lip on the brake drum I've found that part of the lip is a hard mixture of brake dust and rust which can be removed easily with brake cleaner, emery cloth, wire brushes, scraper or whatever. The rest of the lip is usually the wear ridge in the metal. I've found that removing the rust and brake dust lip makes the drums easier to remove and it's not difficult to do. However taking off the metal wear ridge is a bit more of skilled job and I gave up after a few attempts.

Paul

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 12 May 2010, 07:16

the_weaver wrote
"The rest of the lip is usually the wear ridge in the metal. I've found that removing the rust and brake dust lip makes the drums easier to remove and it's not difficult to do. However taking off the metal wear ridge is a bit more of skilled job and I gave up after a few attempts."

i just clean the hole lot off with a flap wheel in the electric drill gun,

whilst in there give the rest of the working face a pollish and de/glaze,

easy peasy

regards malcolm

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » 13 May 2010, 22:45

Interesting - I did this job on our 1.9D ZX on Fridays and was surprised that (after removing the nut) the drums came off with nothing more than hand force - the reason being that the inner edge of the drum was ground back at about 45 degrees to the contact surface for the shoes - so there was no lip.

I also had to replace a section of the steel pipe and a cylinder - I clamped the hose while I did the job - and much to my surprise and delight the thing bled itself by gravity. (Fitted it all up, opened up the bleed nipple and got on with re-fitting the shoes until fluid started coming out of the nipple.)

Sounds easy - until it came to those springs!

KEB1 · Post by **KEB1** » 17 May 2010, 21:19

As it happens, there isn't a lip on the drum at all which I was quite pleased about (at least on this side). I got a refund on the shoes and as I couldn't find an aftermarket kit that allowed the hand brake lever to be swapped, I ordered a kit form the dealer. Unfortunately, it wasn't in stock so I am having to wait. Hopefully, the kit will arrive this week so I can get the job done and get it MOT'd. Just hope I don't find anything else

Post by **RichardW** » 18 May 2010, 12:15

Uggghh...ZX rear drums, gives me the shivers....!

I had to do the ones on our first ZX when one of the cylinders started leaking. Once I got it adrift it turned out that the prvious numpte who had 'serviced' the brakes had managed to foul up reiftting the shoes and one had canted over at an angle, and eventually the piston had popped out of the cylinder. Because the shoe was canted over it was knackered (and soaked in brake fluid), and that in turn had worn a big groove in the drum. Said numpte had also thrown away half the adjuster mechanism, so that had to be replaced, and managed to mash the thread on the stub axle (How FFS????? it's M20!). Of course when I tried to remove the cylinders the pipes broke off so I had to fit new drums, bearings, shoes, cylinders, pipes and adjuster kit - which cost nearly £200 all in, and I had to find someone to make the pipes and press the new bearings in as well

Fortunately I was able to recover the thread on the stub axle....

KEB1 · Post by **KEB1** » 19 May 2010, 18:15

I think I had rather not known that Richard

lol

I now have an interesting tail to tell of my own.
The parts arrived today from the local dealer but something didn't look right with the cylinders. The new ones had a round plate where it fits through the back plate where as the old one has a oval "socket" to be accommodated.
Turns out after an e mail with photo to GSF (who were very helpful), although is says Bendix on the reservoir cap and master cylinder (which is what I was working from), it has Gurling rear (and I would assume front ?) brakes

Apparently Citroen were known for doing this around the date the car was built. Despite putting the vin number into the system, it always comes up with Bendix.
So now I have got to source aftermarket Gurling parts as the dealer price was up around the £200 mark.

And I thought it was all going so well...... Oh well, I did want to push the MOT further into the good weather...

Cheers,

Kristian.