c3 1.4 hdi glow plug relay circuit testing

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mosesgould
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c3 1.4 hdi glow plug relay circuit testing

Post by mosesgould »

hi all
i'v got a c3 which im not sure if the glow light should actually come on when ignition is turned on prior to starting(only just brought it 2 months ago) so far i'v changed relay but still no joy which is when i found original relay connector had been removed and spade connectors used to reconnect relay,i'v never seen orange glow light on since i'v owned it for 3 months except when i disconnected the relay.
i'm presuming its been connected properly for now as im sure i feel relay operate for a very very quick click???
does anyone know correct wire colours so i can check, also tested voltage on relay leads and one is earth another 12v another 0v and another 4v which was checked with a warm engine and then i compared readings to my berlingo van which except for one wire which had 8v on it was all the same.
also when relay was disconnected for voltage testing the glow light for c3 actually came on so i need to know what might be the correct voltages at glow relay and also which sensor would affect this reading if the 4v reading is incorrect ie engine temp sensor etc etc so as to enable me to fully diagnose it properly if anyone may shed some light on my ramblings it would be appreciated.
best regards
anthony
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JamesQB
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Post by JamesQB »

I also have a C3 1.4 HDi. It's the 16V model 2003 reg. In all the years we've owned it, the glowplug light has never come on, and I read on some page in cyberspace that this is normal. Personally I can't see why they'd fit the symbol if it's never intended to light up, but ours never has anyway.

With this engine (DV4TED4) the glowplugs are only used if the temp is very low outside, and then only briefly. They're apparently supposed to stay on after the engine has started, though, for a minute or two, to reduce emissions and/or quiet running I believe.

What's the problem with the car that's causing you to check the relay et al?
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mosesgould
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glow light

Post by mosesgould »

perhaps im making the mistake of comparing it to my berlingo as all diesels iv owned the light comes before starting engine, in the owners manual it says light should come on and i started looking at it because it takes about 20-30 secs of cranking engine before it will start then i get a load of white smoke and it runs ok all day then, its not always like it every day.
i just put it down to the glow light not coming on but perhaps i need to investigate other things so any help from anyone more knowledgable might help.
anthony
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JamesQB
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Post by JamesQB »

Ah, if you look at my signature beneath each post, you'll see my C3 suffers the same, although it doesn't run well afterwards either, although it's an ongoing repair at the moment.

What year is it, and is it the 16V engine using the Delphi injection system?

So far the hard starting problem, accompanied by white smoke when it finally catches, has been mainly due to injector problems in these cars. The white smoke is unburnt diesel. Is it very clattery and rough sounding when it finally starts?

You need to do a back-leakage test to see if you have one injector or more which is leaking too much fuel, causing the system's high pressure to drop, and, since the pressure is lowest at cranking, making it hard for the engine to catch as it requires a minimum pressure to start.

Are you finding the turbo boost doesn't kick in till around 2700rpm as well, incidentally, or have you got power from low rpm upwards giving a nice, even pull?

Here's the DIY leak-off test kit I made: http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... highlight=

And here are the results I got. You can see injector 2 was leaking terribly. Since changed it and now results are the same as cylinder 1, and starting is much improved, just haven't got the injector coded in to the ECU yet: http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... 818#197818
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Post by Citroenmad »

Is that the 8v 70BHP HDi or the 16v 90?

So it still starts fine even over the winter months but the light doesnt come on?

I wouldnt be too bothered about the light not coming on if its still starting well. Obviously the plugs are still working or are not needed.

I rarely see the glow plug light on the C5s and only if its in the minus figures outside do i ever wait for the light to go out, its not needed. Unlike the older XUD units which seem to need them almost always.
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Post by myglaren »

Second that, glow plug indicator only lights very briefly if at all.
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Post by mosesgould »

hi all
its the 16v 2003 model and it seems to pull ok from low revs and runs fine to be honest but i'v never drove a new one?? its just some mornings it can take 20 secs or so of cranking to get it going properly and certainly seems slightly worse if its colder.
so any advice is very welcome and i will give the injectors a look at next, or does anyone do exchange injectors at a reasonable cost as iv seen these mentioned before and citroen charge like a rhino for them?? do you have to get them coded to the ecu or is that something you can do yourself if second hand one were fitted etc.
best regards
anthony
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Post by myglaren »

I was quoted in the region of £250 each for injectors for the HDi and they may run without being coded but for the ideal operation they should be coded.

I had a dud one that a diesel specialist refurbished and it seems to be OK, wasn't all that cheap though, £20 per injector for testing and £100 for the refurbishing, + the ineViTAble.

If you could do the leakoff test and get a Lexia on it it would give you a better idea of what may be required.

I had a leakoff test done on mine that showed nothing but one of the injectors was non-operational below about 1500 revs and not much better above that.
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Post by JamesQB »

Same year as my C3, so you'll have the Delphi C6 injection system. If it came to it, Delphi specialists dotted around the country do an overhaul service for £118 and they test and give the injector a new 16-digit C2i code, and you can do it by post. I opted for using online scrapyard request forms which got me 4 replies, one of which was very reasonable and turned out to be in very good condition. Bugger to change it but did the job in a day, re-used the high-pressure pipes and had no leaks at all.

The C2I code needs coding into the ECU either way, so it's £35 at a dealer (here anyway) or buy yourself a Lexia 3 from China for around £130 now on eBay to do it.

I asked about the pull at low revs because the solenoid vacuum valve for the turbo can become leaky and cause poor running and no boost until around 2700rpm, at which point it pulls like hell.

Changing the injector has improved my car's starting but it runs poorly, so need to get it coded in and get a new solenoid valve. Incidentally, the scrapyard may supply a EJBR01001A injector instead of EJBR01001Z, but all references I found, and an email to a French company selling the Z as a replacement for both A and Z suffixes, seems to confirm they are the same and Z is just a new reference.

Best of luck.
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mosesgould
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hi all

Post by mosesgould »

thanks for your guidance and i think the glow relay is ok and will do a leak test and probably book it into a delphi centre sometime soon.
anthony
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