Suspension / Steering C5 2.2Hdi Est

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modrico
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Suspension / Steering C5 2.2Hdi Est

Post by modrico »

Hi, 2 months ago i had to have a suspension pipe replaced on my car as it burst and dumped all suspension fluid over a car park leaving car sitting on arches. Since having this done it now appears I have a similar problem as I had noticed small leaks, suspension pump seems to making a strange noise when i unlock car and now my steering groans when turning and is a bit jittery. Anyone have any ideas on severity and approx cost for fixing something like this? This is the most frustrating car I have ever owned but I do kinda like it.
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Post by myglaren »

My first thought is that there is air in the system still.

It isn't the same as the previous hydraulic systems and not so simple to bleed trapped air but you might try some 'Citroebics' - while stationary, raise the car to full height, wait a moment then lower it to the lowest height, wait another moment then repeat five or six times.

Also, try turning the steering wheel full-lock right to full-lock left then reverse, again repeat four or five times.

Who replaced the burst pipe?
They may have incorrectly fitted the seals, also for some things where suspension and brakes are involved then a Lexia diagnostic computer is required to depressurise the system properly.
(brakes and suspension are not linked on the C5 though)


Welcome to the forum, hope this is the biggest problem you have with the car. They seem to get a bad press but aren't as bad as some would have it.
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Post by modrico »

Thanks for your response Steve. Will go and try those things right now. These issues did not happen immediately after getting pipe replaced, they have only started within the last couple of weeks. Does that change your thoughts? It was a "reputable" mechanic that carried this out for me but I suppose with the complexity of this make (starting to now realise) something may have been overlooked. Thanks again

Chris
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Post by myglaren »

Even excellent mechanics can be thrown by the Citroen approach to engineering if they are not completely familiar with it and the C5 is a new generation, applying the same techniques as prior models needed could lead to more problems that it solves.

Personally I think that the older model was better in most respects. The closed suspension system on the C5 makes removal of any trapped air problematic.

Do you know if they used a diagnostic computer to look for suspension problems after replacing the pipe and fluid?

The delay in the symptoms appearing could well point to an unrelated problem though as trapped air should have manifested itself immediately.

What does the suspension pump sound like? Mine always makes a fairly brief 'whirring' sound on unlocking and again when I chuck myself into the car but it is quite unobtrusive. Some mornings after being unused for about 24 hours or more it lasts longer and the front will rise visibly by a couple of inches. Other times it will drop a couple of inches, depends on the car's attitude when last left and how quickly I exited and locked it.

The groaning of the steering could possibly be the universal joint on the steering column, these are known to dry out and corrode a bit. A dollop of spray grease may alleviate that one with a bit of luck.
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Post by Citroenmad »

My C5 had air in the system causing the suspension pump to be very noisey and very slow at lifting the car. Sometimes it wouldnt raise the car at all it was so weak.

I thought the pump was on its way out but a local citroen indy told me it might just be air. So i took it to them who replaced the LDS fluid and bled the system. Its now as good as new again.

They said to fully depresurise the system it needs to be connected to a Lexia computer, not sure how true this is, there might be other ways, but the certainly fixed it.
Last edited by Citroenmad on 11 Apr 2010, 12:40, edited 1 time in total.
Chris
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Post by modrico »

Thanks guys. I'm at a loss with it. Not all that mechanically minded either which doesnt help. Will go back to the garage tomorrow with it but I'm thinking there is just no fluid left in the car whatsoever as it was leaking and now it isnt????? Not looking forward to this as I'm a skint student.

Cheers anyway

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Post by Citroenmad »

Have you checked the LDS suspension fluid level?

Oh, one thing ill mention. If the garage you used for the new pipework doesnt know C5s, they may well have put in LHM fluid, instead of the LDS. This does cause big problems and might be the issue with yours.

If the garage you use doesnt seem to know whats wrong, find a good citroen specilaist, who should know whats wrong.

Mine had LDS mixed with LHM and air, so it wasnt working great! (i didnt put the LHM in, must have been there from before i bought the car)

A local citroen indy charged me £105 to replace the LDS and bleed the system, as i say, its now perfect.

How many miles has your 2.2 done?
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Post by modrico »

Wouldnt know how to check that level???? I will ask tomorrow what fluid they used but i think I'm just going to have to bite the bullet and go to citroen. How do I check the LDS level and can I do anything about it on a Sunday you think???
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Post by myglaren »

Remove this cover:
Image

The front tank is the LDS reservoir:
Image Image

It is quite difficult to see the level, some tanks have a clear window, others, like mine, don't:)
Image

To remove the cover, use two screwdrivers to pry out the upper part of the clip and withdraw it completely, then you can pull out the lower part. Chances are you will break at least one and lose another - I just did :roll:

To see the photo's full size go here, click a photo then in the menu over it click "All Sizes" for larger images.
Sorry but Flickr doesn't appear to do clickable thumbnails.
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Post by modrico »

thanks thats what i thought. just having a nightmare trying to pop those plastic rivets. Im pretty sure that the leaking fluid was green and not LDS orange? Can i fill this up with LDS fluid myself or would that be frowned upon? If I can then how much would i need and can I put any additives in to fix any leaks?

Cheers

Chris
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Post by myglaren »

If someone has added LHM you will need to drain and flush the system to remove any traces of that or any other contaminants.

It is possible to do it yourself but not easy if you are unaware of the procedures involved. As it is not a circulating system like the Xantia it is not easy to get the fluid out of the runs to the spheres - I haven't a clue how that works, unless all the spheres are removed and drained and the lines to them flushed out.

There must be absolutely no additives to the LDS system.

Whereabaouts are you? Maybe someone here can recommend a local specialist who can do the job satisfactorily without robbing you blind.

See also our list of Lexia owners who have volunteered to make diagnostic readings of other member's cars. Note that some of those offering to do this may charge a small fee but nothing like you would pay a dealer - note that not all the dealers have much of an idea of what they are doing, there are some horror stories hear of it all going horribly wrong in the hands of those who profess to know better.

If you hang around a bit until wheeler and cachaciero have had chance to see this and respond you will likely get some better advice.
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Post by modrico »

Thanks Steve. Quite amazing what you can learn in a couple of hours on a forum. I'm actually up in Angus, North East Scotland. There are 2 Citroen dealers close to me but I'd rather not pay their premium if i dont have to. Will try another place i know of tomorrow and just ask them straight if they have experience of this type of car. It's my steering that is worrying me the most but as they are connected it stands to reason where the problem has originated.

Chris
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Post by myglaren »

You are unfortunately a long way from any Lexia owners but not too far from boristhespie who has had many woes with his C5s, including being severely ripped off by clueless dealers.
He knows of a specialist that does a decent job at a sensible price no too far away from you - look up his posts on the subject.
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Post by myglaren »

There is a vast amount of info in this pdf :
http://ftp.psyborg.rpg.pl/biuletyny
look on the 2005 C5_C8.pdf, (10th August 2008, 23:40 7.6M) look on page 311 for C5 Suspension details.

Page 319 has details of draining the LDS circuit but be aware that this is for the 2005 models and there may be variances compared to the 2002 model.


Edit: Link corrected
Last edited by myglaren on 11 Apr 2010, 23:22, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Citroenmad »

The first thing to do is check your LDS level, its quite easy to do really though its not clear as to how much should actually be in there. So long as yours is near the top thats good.

To get the black clips things off to remove the cover you need to prise up the top part, this then releases the bottom of the clip and you can price that off.

If you think it was leaking green fluid and not the red/orange LDS fluid then you will have problems. This can ruin the pump over a sustained time.

I wouldnt recommend you go to a dealer, in my expereince they are a little clueless! Finding a good citroen independant specialist is your best bet, even if it means you have to travel a little bit.
Chris
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