Clutch Auto Adjust Cable

swiss_steve · Post by **swiss_steve** » 14 Mar 2010, 10:19

Hi all,

I fear that it's time to replace my clutch (clicking as I press down on the pedal: no pressure on the pedal for the first half inch, then required pressure is quite heavy: clutch bite position getting very near the floor; etc etc). So, as my car is a MkI/MkII hybrid (just pre facelift model, built at the factory in October 1997), I have learnt to my cost that I must check out as much in advance as possible to avoid wasting time when work is underway).

After reading various posts on the forum, I see a number of references to the option of either manual or auto-adjust clutch cables. My old ZX had a manual version when I did the clutch on that one a few years back - easy. But an exploratory look at the Xantia showed a different story, here’s the photos:-

There is clearly no thread, nuts or any other obvious means of adjustment for the cable on the gearbox-end of the cable, so I fear there must be an auto-adjust mechanism somewhere down line.

My Haynes BOL (for a MKI version) doesn’t show any details for an auto-adjust cable system. So I have two questions please:-
1) Does anyone out there have any diagrams or photos of what it would look like and where it is located? I assume it’s probably on the other end of the cable, i.e. around the clutch pedal area, which judging by stories of the “Clutch Clip” posts I’ve seen here, this fills me with dread.
2) Furthermore, some references I’ve seen when searching the forum about the auto-adjust mechanism also indicates it’s quite tricky getting the mechanism to reset.

Can anyone give me more info? I feel I’m totally in the dark on this one and want to satisfy myself that I can do the job before undertaking the task.

All feedback is welcome – thanks!!

Steve

Post by **Peter.N.** » 14 Mar 2010, 11:04

Hi Steve

I have only had experience with the XM cable and that has a spring around the pedal end of the cable, behind the engine, you need to compress this spring to release the tensioner, as its very difficult to get at I made a tool from a wire coathanger, with a handle on one end and a hook on the other, engage the hook with the spring as far up as you can, you can the pull on the handle end while you release or reattach the cable - this is of course is assuming yours is the same as the XM.

Peter

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 14 Mar 2010, 12:31

the XANT self adjuster is about half way along the cable, and sits on the ledge od the sub frame, and is inside a rubber bellow/gaitor,

i have seen someone reset a simmilar cable on a ME**O,

all he did was hold the cable each side of the gaitor/adjuster and stretch it,

i have not tried this on a XANT cable as yet so not sure if it works

regards malcolm

swiss_steve · Post by **swiss_steve** » 14 Mar 2010, 12:59

Hi Malcolm,

Thanks for the info. I haven't yet got under the car to trace back the cable from the gearbox to the engine/interior bulkhead - I guess that is the next step. Then at least I can get a measure of what this auto-adjust thingy looks like. It's curious how no-one seems to have a photo or diagram of it....

Anyway, this makes me wonder how I can get enough slack in the auto-adjust system to disconnect the cable (which might have to be from the pedal end, instead of the gearbox end

). [Sorry, I must be dumb, but I don't know what a "ME**O" is...].

I'm wondering if it's easier to replace the whole cable for a manual version, as it must be the same age as the car, and 13 years is a lot of operations/service... Does anyone know if they are interchangable?

Cheers,

Steve

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 14 Mar 2010, 13:05

ME**O needs TR instead of the **
It's the word censor's silly sense of humour

swiss_steve · Post by **swiss_steve** » 14 Mar 2010, 13:16

Well this is all mighty bizzare...

First, you can't get any slack in the cable to get it off the gearbox (or do you simply unbolt the clutch outer cable retaining bracket off the gearbox)?

Secondly, if you can't reset an auto-adjust cable, does this mean you have to renew the clutch cable with every clutch replacement? Surely Citroen couldn't be that mean to its Customers? That's verging on a 'one-time clutch for the life of the car' syndrome....

swiss_steve · Post by **swiss_steve** » 14 Mar 2010, 14:04

... one other thought - is it a good idea to replace the pin in the clutch release lever/fork shaft with a bolt and nylock nut? If so, does anyone know the diameter of the pin, please?....

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 14 Mar 2010, 14:06

no Xac its the malcolm word fillter kicked in there,

and Steve all you do to unhitch the cable from the bracket is get hold of the end and pull it and unhook it from the bracket,

as these are a back to front clutch in there opperation, the inner cable is the moveing section which pulls the clutch arm towards the front of the car and the bracket which the inner cable is attatched to,

i belive these self adjustting cables can be resett but i have never tried it

regards malcolm

swiss_steve · Post by **swiss_steve** » 14 Mar 2010, 14:28

Hi again Malcolm,

Well I'm gaining some confidence back here again - at least I reckon I'll get the cable off the release lever as there's about an inch slack in it now.

But without knowing how the auto-adjust mechanism actually 'adjusts' itself, should I have to worry about holding (clamping) the inner cable to stop it moving during the clutch change, just in case the ratchet system moves to a point where it won't reset itself and I can't get the cable back on the release lever?

If I can, I'd like to avoid going anywhere near the clutch pedal and 'The Clip', and avoid the additional time and expense replacing the whole clutch cable simply because I don't know how to reset it.

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 15 Mar 2010, 08:03

i have as yet done anything with these cables on replaceing a clutch, just unhook the inner cable from the bracket on the gear box, then re/attatch after all is backl together,

no had any prob's yet

regards malcolm

swiss_steve · Post by **swiss_steve** » 15 Mar 2010, 08:33

Well I'm just a little nervous that unhooking the cable from the gearbox whereby the inner cable would 'wind itself in' (because it is designed to take up slack as the clutch wears).

As it is, the cable must already be near the end of its travel (i.e. shortest) to allow for the clutch wear, and it is here that I'm still concerned about how to lengthen the cable again to get in back onto the clutch lever/gearbox.

Clearly there must be a method of lengthening the cable sufficiently to get the inner and outer hooked over the parts on the gearbox, before it winds in the slack. I note in your previous post that it may just be a simple case of pulling on the cable to get the mechanism to 'unwind' - but in my logic (which is not fool-proof), surely the tension on the clutch lever itself prevents the cable to 'unwind' or it wouldn't do its job.
Maybe I'm not explaining my thoughts clearly enough, or I'm not getting something obvious.....

pete-c5 · Post by **pete-c5** » 15 Mar 2010, 09:19

Not sure if this will help, but l got sight of a self adjusting cable a few weeks ago, it is as some one has said behind the engine and its about the size of a toilet roll (core that is) and yes it can be reset, so if l may suggest don’t worry about taking it off, once you have it free from the gear box you will be able to trace it and release it enough to see how to extend it once you have cleaned it

hope this helps

ps hold the clutch pedel up with a bungie cord so the weight of the peddle is off the cable

Post by **RichardW** » 15 Mar 2010, 12:58

I would rather suspect that once the load is removed from the cable the self adjuster should (unless it's sezied or broken) resort to minimum adjust position, and then when you refit the cable, the first time you press the pedal it takes up the slack in the cable.

From the symptoms you describe, it rather sounds to me like the self adjuster might not be working properly, rather than the clutch itself (although the heaviness is probably coming from the clutch) and therefore the first stage might be cable replacement. Check if there is free play between the cable outer and the clutch lever (there shouldn't be if the clutch is adjusted up properly). Of course cable change involves getting access to the infamous clutch clip....

RichG · Post by **RichG** » 15 Mar 2010, 19:24

I have replaced the auto adjusting cable on my Xantia and it is very easy.
Just pull on the cable end and unhook the cable from the clutch release arm. The cable will retract but do not worry. The other end of the cable will then be loose and you can remove it from the pedal clip. The 'adjuster' is mounted to the bulkhead and is held in place by a bracket which has one bolt (about 13mm IIRC). The whole cable can then be removed. It is a bit stiff to get though the guides but it is do-able just remember where it went. Whilst mine was off I held it upright and dropped some silicon oil down between the inner and outer which made it smoother.

To reassemble first re-route the cable and refit the adjuster clamp. Then force the cable grommet through the bulkhead at the pedal end (it is a tight fit). If you then push the free (clutch) end of the cable the other end will extend enabling the clip to be refitted. Lastly pull of the clutch end of the cable and hook over the lever.

Job Done!

Richard

swiss_steve · Post by **swiss_steve** » 15 Mar 2010, 22:03

Hi Richard & Richard,

Well, I agree with you both that the cable should be the first place to check out the problem first. Although it's a great frustration to fiddle with the dreaded Clutch Clip, that's still easier than a complete clutch change... (I hope).

And judging by the symptoms I'm getting on the pedal, i.e. clicking and different levels of clutch bite off the floor depending upon how long it's been since the last depression of the pedal, then it all seems to point to a cable and faulty auto mechanism rather than a worn clutch (which I believe should always have a similar bite position which slowly gets nearer the floor).

So I've ordered my cable and will post later if this solves the problem....