Xantia TD cold start

firstrebel · Post by **firstrebel** » 11 Mar 2010, 10:43

Last year I fitted new glo-plugs to my 1997 1.9 Xantia SX TD, with DickieG's help, and it started perfectly every time. Over the past few months it splutters on cold start with lots of smoke from the tail pipe.

If I turn on the ignition, then off again when the glo-plug light goes off, then back on, it starts better. It seems to want more heat on the glo-plugs.

Why is this?

Bob

spider · Post by **spider** » 11 Mar 2010, 11:05

It could be air ingress, although if it starts better with two "glows" , I'd say you have a glowplug down (or weak)

It could be the timer / relay but that's less likely.

HDI · Post by **HDI** » 11 Mar 2010, 11:16

I would agree , thats a typical symptom of a dead or dying glow plug.
Which make of plug did you use ?

spider · Post by **spider** » 11 Mar 2010, 11:55

Slightly off topic (sorry) but I have seen failing plugs where they glow in the middle rather than the end...

That kind of problem is not really detectable until you bench (well, vice) test them.

Post by **RichardW** » 11 Mar 2010, 12:00

At 150k, if the glowplugs check out OK, it's probably worth checking the valve clearances - the exhausts tend to close up at higher mileage, and stay open a fraction when cold, which makes them rather difficult to start...

HDI · Post by **HDI** » 11 Mar 2010, 12:09

spider wrote:Slightly off topic (sorry) but I have seen failing plugs where they glow in the middle rather than the end...

That kind of problem is not really detectable until you bench (well, vice) test them.

Glad I'm not the only one that tests old glowplugs

Another fault I've found is that defective ones glow less hot on reduced supply voltage than new ones.

Martin Beevers · Post by **Martin Beevers** » 11 Mar 2010, 12:23

I have this problem with my car. Even with new glow plugs fitted.

I find that if I count to 10 after the glow plug light goes out, then start her up, she starts on the first turn with no smoke.

spider · Post by **spider** » 11 Mar 2010, 12:26

Martin Beevers wrote:I find that if I count to 10 after the glow plug light goes out, then start her up, she starts on the first turn with no smoke.

They do remain energized for a few seconds after the light goes out, sometimes you can hear the relay click off about 5 seconds after the warning light goes out (on my 205, I can see the stop light brighten slightly and hear the relay switch off so I know they have gone "off") , but the staying on for a few seconds after the light (until you attempt to start) is quite normal. I'm skipping post heating stuff here as that's off topic.

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 11 Mar 2010, 12:56

RichardW wrote:At 150k, if the glowplugs check out OK, it's probably worth checking the valve clearances - the exhausts tend to close up at higher mileage, and stay open a fraction when cold, which makes them rather difficult to start...

Really? Whats high milage ? My Xantia TD at 225k starts perfectly, Ive never touched the valve clearences, and always changed the oil at 5k intervals..

Ive not come across closed clearences, what causes this? I find something with shims very hard to close up, Yes rocker fingers could close up, but bucket and shims?

Paul

jonathan_dyane · Post by **jonathan_dyane** » 12 Mar 2010, 01:27

They do close up, but it's due to overheating rather than mileage.

Post by **CitroJim** » 12 Mar 2010, 09:57

citroenxm wrote: Ive not come across closed clearences, what causes this?

This is a very common problem on the NA 1.7 XUD but is rare (ish) on the 1.9TD.

The XUD has a quirk where the valve clearances are tigthtest when the engine is stone-cold. The open as the engine warms. Just a tad of heat is often enough.

On the 1.7 XUD it is suspected that the constant valve operation hammers the valve seat inserts further into the head over time.

If a 1.9TD is a reluctant cold starter and all the usual suspects are innocent, a check of the valve clearances is worthwhile. It's a fun job resettingt hem though but I do have an Excel spreadsheet to help with that task...

spider · Post by **spider** » 12 Mar 2010, 14:25

CitroJim wrote:This is a very common problem on the NA 1.7 XUD but is rare (ish) on the 1.9TD.

Jim, do you know how common (or not, as the case may be) with this on a 1.7XUDT ?

Mine seem OK (at about 179K now) , I've never had to set them, thankfully as its not a very nice job (not done one, seen it done years ago)

I know there's always exceptions and the odd 1.9XUDT will have this, just curious if its only the most common on the 1.7 N/A's really

DickieG · Post by **DickieG** » 12 Mar 2010, 17:23

spider wrote:
CitroJim wrote:This is a very common problem on the NA 1.7 XUD but is rare (ish) on the 1.9TD.
Jim, do you know how common (or not, as the case may be) with this on a 1.7XUDT ?

Both of my C15D's "suffered" from it and ran a lot smoother and more powerful after I reset the valve clearances.

Post by **CitroJim** » 12 Mar 2010, 18:31

A dead giveaway that valve clearances are tight is copious white smoke when trying to start. White smoke is in fact unburned fuel going straight out of the exhaust...

It is, I believe, very common on 1.7 NA XUDs but I don't believe it is so common on the 1.7 Turbo.

Although the heads are substantially the same, the valve timing is wilder on on an NA and the compression ratio is much higher. Both might have an effect over time...

jonnydrumm1967 · Post by **jonnydrumm1967** » 13 Mar 2010, 10:14

I'm looking to purchase a C15 with the 1868cc diesel engine.It's apparently suffering from the poor cold start syndrome.It's had the usual stuff,new battery,starter and glowplugs but still struggles to start.Once it's got going it will then start all day no probs.

Does this engine suffer from valve clearance troubles too? or could it maybe be a relay to the plugs not working?

Sorry I've no idea of the mileage.