Exaust fumes getting into car

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

Post Reply
Penguin
Posts: 252
Joined: 04 Apr 2008, 09:35
Location: UK
My Cars:

Exaust fumes getting into car

Post by Penguin »

I tried hijacking someone else's thread with this but received no response, so thought I'd try in its own thread!!



I've been meaning to post this query for some time and it kinda fits in here I guess.

Ever since I have had the car (18 months now) I get fumes in the car if the window or sunroof are open. Doesn't matter which window. Its only in certain conditions i.e. running at 30mph-ish or less. Its really bloody annoying. If I have the sunroof and a window open it is less noticeable, but still there.

Is this common for a Mk1 Xant or is there a particular problem with mine?
95 Xantia 1.9td SX
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 49534
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: Paggers
My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
x 6163
Contact:

Post by CitroJim »

My first thought would be a leaking "brillo pad", the exhaust to manifold joint.

Have a look at the joint and see if you can see fresh soot around it. Another clue to the failure of this joint is being able to smell exhaust fumes under the bonnet.

Another favourite spot, if yours has a cat, is the rear cat to mid-section pipe joint.
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
citroenxm
Posts: 8061
Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto

2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Post by citroenxm »

Is there a gommit or hole in the boot section??

Tow bar fitted? If so there be a hole for the electrics to run through into the car.. the hole for this? Check its all sealed properly


Paul
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
Penguin
Posts: 252
Joined: 04 Apr 2008, 09:35
Location: UK
My Cars:

Post by Penguin »

Thanks for the tips guys. Are leaky exhausts not usually picked up at MOTs? As you can probably tell me and mechanicals are not the best of bed-fellows!

Paul, If there were a hole anywhere wouldn't I get fumes even with windows/sunroof closed? There is not even the slightest whiff until I open something.

Edit: So I guess it isn't a trait of the marque then!
Last edited by Penguin on 08 Mar 2010, 10:51, edited 1 time in total.
95 Xantia 1.9td SX
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 49534
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: Paggers
My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
x 6163
Contact:

Post by CitroJim »

They can potentially miss the manifold blowing although good ones have a sniff under the bonnet. Normally this results in an advisory if the leak is not of biblical proportions.
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
HDI
Posts: 1468
Joined: 22 Sep 2009, 15:46
Location: West Mids
My Cars:
x 7

Post by HDI »

Just to give an idea of how much an exhaust can leak without it being detectable until the windows or sunroof are opened , the exhaust on mine has completely broken away at the rear silencer box connection and there is no smell of fumes until a window or the sunroof is opened !!

You will have an exhaust leak somewhere.
Now using '00 Xantia LX HDI, pov spec :(
My past Citroens :-
'00 Xantia SX HDI, now dead due to accident :(
'99 Xantia HDI 110 Exclusive, RIP :(
'97 Xantia TD SX
'96 Xantia TD LX
'96 ZX TD
'89 BX TD
'88 AX GT
'79 CX2400 Pallas (scrapped :( )
& a couple of Peugeots !
User avatar
Old-Guy
Posts: 1798
Joined: 11 Sep 2008, 12:08
Location: Gloucestershire
My Cars: 2011 Grand C4 Picasso VTR+ 1.6HDi in Kyanos Blue
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
x 17

Post by Old-Guy »

What's happening is that opening a window or the sunroof when the car is moving, reduces the 'cabin' air pressure. If there's any sort of hole from an area of higher pressure outside into the cabin, air (and any exhaust fumes) is sucked into the car. You can reduce the effect by making sure the facia vents are open.

Another place to check is where the pipe goes into the front end of the rear silencer - the favourite place for exhaust failure - if it's not blowing badly, it's easily missed at the MoT. When you put a new box on, it's worth spraying the ends of the silencer with heat-proof paint (e.g. wood-burning stove paint). The box is made of coated steel, but the coating gets burnt off when the pipes are welded into it, leaving a ring of naked, stressed and already oxidised steel around the outside of the weld, which immediately starts rusting, and is why the pipe and weld breaks away from the box.
2011 Grand C4 Picasso VTR+ 1.6HDi in Kyanos Blue
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - after 11 years now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
HDI Dave
Posts: 334
Joined: 14 May 2009, 11:20
Location: Bradford,Yorkshire
My Cars:
x 3

Post by HDI Dave »

HDI wrote:Just to give an idea of how much an exhaust can leak without it being detectable until the windows or sunroof are opened , the exhaust on mine has completely broken away at the rear silencer box connection and there is no smell of fumes until a window or the sunroof is opened !!
You will have an exhaust leak somewhere.
I have to agree with this fellow,and old guy above. I have exactly the same symptoms. and, my exhaust pipe has just completely snapped off at the rear box,leaving the pipe resting on a bar/brace? that is bolted to each side of the car.
Open the windows and monoxide city lol.

Mine's been badly stick welded (burnt the flange away), so a lot of bodging for me will be needed.
I'm thinking of putting a metal sleeve\tube inside the back box and the pipe,bit of paste,maybe a bandage and some jubilees..don't care how pretty it is :wink:
Seems to be a common problem,that's where it snapped before,so it had a new zorst,and here we are again...the pipe's under a lot of tension at that joint upon inspection.
1999 Xantia LX 2.0 HDI 110 Rusteration project...
HDI
Posts: 1468
Joined: 22 Sep 2009, 15:46
Location: West Mids
My Cars:
x 7

Post by HDI »

Yeah , it is common on Xantia's.Poor design really especially when the rest of the system is fine. I have repaired the one on my HDI once already and it's lasted 3 years.The flared pipe flange has broken up this time so it would be a PITA to repair again. I've just found a repair pipe on ebay, that doesn't have a centre silencer , for £18 odd + shipping , so I will go that option this time.
Now using '00 Xantia LX HDI, pov spec :(
My past Citroens :-
'00 Xantia SX HDI, now dead due to accident :(
'99 Xantia HDI 110 Exclusive, RIP :(
'97 Xantia TD SX
'96 Xantia TD LX
'96 ZX TD
'89 BX TD
'88 AX GT
'79 CX2400 Pallas (scrapped :( )
& a couple of Peugeots !
citroenxm
Posts: 8061
Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto

2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Post by citroenxm »

I wouldn't worry about a centre silencer on the HDi what so ever!

The original XUD in the Xantia was only back box equipt, and the HDi is a 70% more cleaner engine so Id do away with it..

If you study the "Exhaust Tunnel" you'll see that its not really wide enough for a center box, just a Round style 'cat' near the front..

Paul
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
HDI
Posts: 1468
Joined: 22 Sep 2009, 15:46
Location: West Mids
My Cars:
x 7

Post by HDI »

Turbo diesels are quiet enough without that centre box. In fact , even with the exhaust broken as it is the noise is still low !!
Now using '00 Xantia LX HDI, pov spec :(
My past Citroens :-
'00 Xantia SX HDI, now dead due to accident :(
'99 Xantia HDI 110 Exclusive, RIP :(
'97 Xantia TD SX
'96 Xantia TD LX
'96 ZX TD
'89 BX TD
'88 AX GT
'79 CX2400 Pallas (scrapped :( )
& a couple of Peugeots !
MikeT
Posts: 4809
Joined: 11 Jun 2007, 16:17
Location: Christchurch, Dorset. UK
My Cars: 2005 C5restyle 1.6HDI 16v 110hp VTR Estate
2008 C5 X7 1.6HDI VTR+ Saloon
x 231

Post by MikeT »

I agree with Jim, it's probably the flexi-joint gasket between manifold and exhaust. I had this on my first TD with the exact symptoms you describe.

If you intend to keep the car, buy the genuine kit from Citroen as it's a high quality gasket (unlike the 3rd party offerings) and all new parts including bolts, nuts, cups, washers etc.
Penguin
Posts: 252
Joined: 04 Apr 2008, 09:35
Location: UK
My Cars:

Post by Penguin »

Thanks for all the help guys. I'll have to get this looked at before the summer.
95 Xantia 1.9td SX
citronut
Posts: 10937
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 00:46
Location: United Kingdom east sussex
My Cars:
x 92

Post by citronut »

you can buy the woven wire/brilo pad type of sealing ring from the likes of GSF, they use to sell the full kit with an asortment of nuts,bolts, springs and washers,

the one to steer clear of is the nasty fiber type a lot of exhaust centres supply, as it will break up in no time at all

regards malcolm
HDI Dave
Posts: 334
Joined: 14 May 2009, 11:20
Location: Bradford,Yorkshire
My Cars:
x 3

Post by HDI Dave »

I've bodged my exhaust back box,as the smell was headache inducing..cut an old computer case up to make a sleeve as the flange was shot:
Image

Image

It's cured 75% of the pong.
Where is this 'brillo' seal and how easy is it to get at/fit?

Ta,Dave.
1999 Xantia LX 2.0 HDI 110 Rusteration project...
Post Reply