Front wheel bearing (UPDATE)

[scoles]

hi all,

my xantia 110bhp forte has started making a horrible noise from the front the faster you go the louder it gets.

now a week ago it could only be heard at motorway speeds...now though you can hear it in the cabin and town speeds.

I think its a wheel bearing but it has only arisen in the past week.

Had the wheels off to check for anything rubbing as thats what it sounds like... doesnt totally resemble a wheel bearing.

But likely hood it is.

So any ideas?

And also how hard are the wheels bearings to do on these thing. i called and there not expensive at all really.

Cheers
Stuart

[handyman]

Hullo Stuart, are you getting any vibration through the steering? It might be worth checking either the tyres and driveshafts for damage or wear, as these can also be the source of noise.

If it is the hub bearings, you will need to use a hydraulic press to get the old unit out and refit a new one. They need to be removed and fitted correctly otherwise they will not run true, and that causes all sorts of associated problems.

Handyman

[scoles]

Hi, I have recently as in the other weekend changed the nearside front ABS ring and lower arm rear bush and droplink.

I had the driveshaft out to do this but still in the gearbox.

What wear can occur on the driveshaft to cause this problem? it doesnt get any worse when cornering or such.

I have access to a hydraulic press to remove and refit.

Just dont have a manual of any sort to see if there are any precautions that need to be taken or points to be noted upon refitting the new one.

Also tyres are fine on the front both are plenty tred and have equal wear.

Cheers
Stuart

[CitroJim]

Duff wheel bearings usually give themselves away with vibration as the first sign but that's not always a sure sign. I did dome 106 ones ages ago and they did not vibrate but did make a horrible noise because the were full of water and rust following several trips through floods. No discernible play or vibration though...

The other bearing to check is the RH (OS) driveshaft intermediate bearing. This one can collapse and give rise to a racket. Usually, when they do, they damage the intermediate bearing housing attached to the rear of the engine block.

[VertVega]

... horrible noise from the front the faster you go the louder it gets...

Front left wheel bearing caused similar horrible noise in mine (right side is still factory assembly).
Noise increased clearly if the road was curving rightwards which caused
defected left side bearing to have more pressure on it than normal.
I also tested this issue by turning steering wheel just slightly to left and then right at constant speed
and listened to the noise behavior.

If there's no change in noise then it might be CV joint problem.
I read this somewhere: "Popping or clicking noises when turning. This almost always indicates a worn
or damaged outer CV joint. To verify this condition, place the vehicle in reverse, crank the steering wheel
to one side and drive the vehicle backwards in a circle (check the rearview mirror first!). If the noise gets louder,
it confirms the diagnosis and the need for a new CV joint or replacement shaft assembly."

[RichardW]

General wisdom is that wheel bearings are noisier when loaded, and quieter when unloaded, hence the noise changes as you go around corners. However, I had one on a Xantia that exhibited the opposite symptoms, and ones on our last ZX and current Picasso that were noisy all the time, regardless of direction (Picasso was in 5 months ago for 'both' FWBs but is howling like a banshee again - I was never convinced they'd done the OS one. An argument for next week I guess ) I also had a funny noise on a Xantia that sounded like a wheel bearing but turned out to be slightly loose track rod end amplifying the vibration / noise made by a slightly out of balance tyre! They do like to be obtuse these French motors!!

[Peter.N.]

I agree, it depends how the bearing had failed, the usual problem is failure of the case hardening wich leaves small pits into which the balls drop as its rotating, when there is no load they don't do it so its quiet, under load it can sound like a tram.

Peter

[scoles]

some good information there people...

hmmm the noise definately doesnt get louder when cornering either way. and there is no clicking popping from the CV's when cornering on full lock neither.

the only time the note will change is upon rising speed its pitch gets higher and lower speed it has a lower pitch.

But another one to check will be this intermediate bearing.

I dont mind replacing the bearings but i would rather not have the replace to try and solve approach as its all £££...

some more investigating required i think

Stuart

[VertVega]

... the only time the note will change is upon rising speed its pitch gets higher and lower speed it has a lower pitch.

But another one to check will be this intermediate bearing...

These symptoms makes me also think that it's intermediate bearing.
Only if you have the chance to lift the car (all 4 wheels or only front wheels) and while "driving" listen with a stethoscope.
Maybe you can also ask a garage to diagnose it for you. Do the replacement job yourself

[scoles]

Well the update is that i have replaced the N/S wheel bearing.

Went for a test drive and guess what......the nosie is still there although a lot quieter.

But i now notice that when cornering the noise dissapears....so even the slightest of corners to the left the noise stops...

And the slightest of corners to the right the noise gets a tad louder..

When going straight there is a pronounced rumble there.

I am thinking the problem is still with the N/S due to the symptoms i have described above.

Anyone shed any more light before i tear all my hear out

Stuart

[Peter.N.]

Hi Stuart

Well at least it proves its bearing trouble. Although the usual symptoms are increased by the added weight, its not necessaraly so, could be the opposite. Its failure of the case hardening that causes the noise to increase with the weight, could be some other fault. If you swap the front hubs over that may give you some more information. I would suspect the other bearing rather than the new one.

Peter

[scoles]

thanks for that... i have another bearing to do the O/S one but it just doesnt sound like its coming from there at all....

i find it strange that this time around the noise comes and goes when cornering....

I will do the other side..much to my resent as i must say the bearing setup on these must be the hardest i have had to remove.

I had to press the hub from the bearing....which in turn left the inner race attatched and the outer race in the main part of the hub.

I had to put the other part in the lathe and machine a groove in to it to use a set of bearing pullers to remove the inner race.

Before removing the outer race with 12tonnes of pressure and a big bang.

even the new bearings didnt go in with ease but i ensured that when pressing the outer race in that i pressed on teh outer race and vice versa when pressing the hub in.


Cheers
Stuart

[Peter.N.]

Hi Stuart

I remove the outer part by running a ring of weld metal round the inside with a stick welder, when it cools its amazing how much it shrinks, I can then hook it out with a couple of screwdrivers.

Peter

[scoles]

ah i had read about that method might do that this time and see if it works...

Is it normal on these for the outer race of the bearing to be a push fit with a hand press into the hub and the rotating part of the hub to be a press fit by hand press into the bearing itself

I am just wondering if the outer race of that bearing may have been too tight and has pre loaded the bearing?

And removed the other side today along with the driveshaft and it could possibly be a tad rough deffinately no where near as bad as the N/S

also the intermediate bearing is perfect so thats proven OK thank god.


Thanks
Stuart

[Peter.N.]

They are a pretty tight fit on the XM, I don't have the luxury of a press, I use a big vice and lots of adaptors, usually old sockets they take some getting in and if they don't go dead straight they jam. I only seem to remember having a problem with the outer race though.

Peter