running issue now

spliffy · Post by **spliffy** » 29 Jan 2010, 17:35

hi chaps i managed to sort out the clutch in my previous post a box off job and what a sod to get back on!! i now have a new problem it wont tick over when cold ticks over too fast when warm and there is little boost from turbo basically its as flat as a fart ! any ideas guys up to now you have been most helpfull cheers (car is 1998 2.ol t xantia xu eng )

Post by **CitroJim** » 29 Jan 2010, 18:41

Sounds very much like a massive air leak on the inlet manifold Spliffy.

This will result in a very weak mixture and will give the symptoms you describe, more or less.

Have you got all the hoses connected after your clutch job?

Be interested to know in what ways the 'box was a "sod" when replacing it and what was wrong with the clutch in the end?

spliffy · Post by **spliffy** » 29 Jan 2010, 20:50

the clutch problem erm well its a bit embarrasing really for a person that has been doing cars for 22 years especialy when iv had 3 hydraulic citroens which are high mainenance here goes dont laugh dude i put the clutch plate in the wrong way !! in my defence when i took it off my old engine to put on my new engine it was stuck on the dowls and it all shot off in hind sight i should of put a paint mark on it! by the way leaving the thrust bearing on the pressure plate and taking out the fork pin was spot on it works (with engine on floor not sure if it is possible in the car) to put the box back in was a pain took us hours of jiggling we only had a trolley jack in the end i used a scaffy bar up top with a wagon strap back to the new problem iv checked all turbo pipes but i will check again tomorro a leak on the inlet manifold wouldnt cause it would it (just something iv got going around my head)

Post by **CitroJim** » 29 Jan 2010, 21:14

It's happened to all of us Spliffy, we've all been there.

I made a balls-up on a V6 autobox a while ago which required the whole engine and transmission to come out again to rectify it

It happens..

The gearbox is a bit of a devil to get home at the best of times. I find an engine crane on the gearbox and a good assistant works well...

Well, it won't be the turbo hoses but if you have an air leak south of the throttle butterfly that admits excess air, it will upset the MAP sensor as well as making the mixture weak. A weak mixture will make it feel flat..

Check you reconnected the Idle Control Valve although that'll have no effect on the boost...

Is the pipe to the carbon canister intact? That'll let air in otherwise...

spliffy · Post by **spliffy** » 30 Jan 2010, 12:37

i dont think i have a carbon canister mate been snowing here so havnt had time to look going out shortly im gonna make a inlet manifold gasket and try that ( iv only used silicone to join it at present) as far as i know every thing is connected back up will let you all know

spliffy · Post by **spliffy** » 21 Feb 2010, 15:59

sorry its been a while to reply been busy iv sorted the problem after many a time of searching and re gasketing manifold i stupidly got 2 plugs mixed up the throttle positioning sensor has a white plug onto a clear socket and the other one ( the pipe going from intercooler to throttle body has asensor would appreciate knowing what it is) has a light grey plug going onto the same colour socket (they both fitted each other which i wouldnt have thought they would) in the rush and a dark garage they got mixed up im glad to say my car is back up to full power and running beautifully she now needs re gassing (as in spheres) is it cheaper to buy new ones if so where from, mine has 8 sphe€res i think, its the one with the sport button which i cant feel the difference anyway cheers for all your help

andmcit · Post by **andmcit** » 21 Feb 2010, 16:19

Spliffy - I think you'll find it's more than just the one with sport button on
the suspension. Your car sounds to me as though it's an Activa! It's the turbo
CT and if the car is a saloon you've got yourself a very rare Citroen!! Yes,
with more than the hydractive as there's the activa ram reserve spheres too.

Most of the spheres are available from GSF though they list fronts which
aren't available from stock. Hydractie spheres will fit if you want the car to
ride a bit smoother than spec though I'd poersonally try for pukka fitment.
Pleiades can regas sphers to the correct pressure by adjusting standard
accumulator and anti sink Xantia spheres.

I've fitted a clutch into a CX GTi turbo and found out the hard way that the
slug sender on the flywheel had been knoecked off = yes, the engine needed
to come out again. By god, that must've been a world record out/in as I was
so angry with myself I threw everything at it and was back running in a few
hours - proud of that side of it now but embarassed I'd missed that when
mating up the gearbox and engine.

Andrew

spliffy · Post by **spliffy** » 21 Feb 2010, 18:12

im pretty sure mine is just hydractive suspension not activa so my hand book says i know what you mean about kicking your self iv spent 6 weeks getting mine sorted first the c shaft pulley was the dynamic type and unknown to me the timing marks had moved resulting in bent valves and then when i got that sorted i found that id put the pressure plate in the wrong way duuhh!! my only problem now is iv no heat inside so iv got a dash out job not looking forward to that everyone has said i must be mad changing the engine and should of scrapped it i thought that for a time too but now its fixed boy is it fun to drive just over 200bhp i like playing with boy racers sad for a 38 year old eh !! im still not too old yet !

andmcit · Post by **andmcit** » 21 Feb 2010, 18:20

The 2.0i TCT was only fitted new by Citroen in the Activa and the TCT estate.
That's not to say someone hasn't made their own engine conversion and for
once fitted one of these engines in another Xantia - that'd be a world first!
Sounds like the car has had some treatment before if you are getting 200bhp
- I find having that kind of power does bring out the boyracer in me and I'm
not much older too!

What's the car badged as or logged in on the registration document - this
will significantly influence what spheres you need to get. Mind, I guess you'd
notice the extra Activa ram in the nearside wheelarch.

Andrew

Post by **CitroJim** » 21 Feb 2010, 20:31

Hi Spliffy,

The sensor in the pipe from the intercooler to the turbo is the idle control valve. It's a metal cylinder about two inches long with a rubber pipe on the end.

Can't recall any other sensors in that area...

The hydractive switch does not make an instant difference you can feel when pressed. What it does is change the thresholds at with point the ECU changes from soft to firm mode. You don't feel the switching and the only real indication is a detectable "tightening up" of cornering and generally more poised hard cornering.

Lack of heat: Don't rip your dash apart unless you really have to. Is hot water flowing through the matrix? It just may need bleeding. You can see the bleed valve on the matrix hose elbow in the vicinity of the cam cover. Is the blower running? You'll get no heat out if it is not. Finally, the problem may be the motorised flap not movingdue to stripped gears on its drive motor.

Yes, normal hydractive has 8 spheres. Activa has two more. The most obvious one being an additional accumulator under the battery tray.

spliffy · Post by **spliffy** » 22 Feb 2010, 20:36

the car is badged as a xantia vsx turbo.on the wings it says ct turbo.as for the power the car comes standard with 150bhp.it is easily possible to get well over 200bhp but the over boost chip citroen kindly put in the ecu says no,when the guy chipped and re-mapped the car he could not get around the over boost chip it just puts on the engine management light and goes into back up mode so he has took it as far as he can without it coming on i would welcome any solution to this.as for the heating this has been a long standing problem the rubber ring that goes around the thermostat disintergrated and im guessing its in the matrix the blower works ok . if i was to diconnect the matrix now you would not be able to blow thru it i then back flush it with the hose ,re connect ,bleed,run engine then i get warm air for a while but then it will go cold again and when you try to bleed it at the matrix nipple no water comes out so matrix must be blocked iv tried bleeding it loads of times with a home made header tank on top of the expansion tank (5 litres) to no avail. its got a new water pump too

Post by **CitroJim** » 22 Feb 2010, 20:58

Ahh yes,a Turbo CT. An Activa minus the Activa bits!!! An Estate I take it?

Yes, sadly, the ECU is programmed to fail to limp mode if the boost exceeds one bar

No way around it sadly but running the boost at that level gives a useful increase in power.

The turbo is tiny so 1 bar is about the maximum it'll happily run before going into surge anyway. Any more needs a bigger turbo and after-market management such as Emerald or Megasquirt.

The engine itself its good for a lot more and in it's 150bhp state of tune is almost bullet-proof and very long-lived.

I'd be surprised if the matrix was that blocked as both inlet and outlet are at the top so a blockage in the matrix itself should just cause short-circuit circulation through it...

Take care disconnecting. The matrix elbow connection on a Turbo CT is not very accessible and very delicate.

I wonder if the right thermostat is fitted? I once saw a "top hat" 'stat incorrectly fitted that stopped the matrix flow dead. Worth a check given there has been a thermostat issue.

Also, the Turbo CT needs an 83 degree 'stat and not the more usual 88 degree one.

andmcit · Post by **andmcit** » 22 Feb 2010, 21:03

Hi Spliffy.

Interesting to read. I fear I may be going on about this too much but I'm
fascinated by your car spec as it's a new one to me! If the car is a saloon
it will be the only one I've ever seen in the UK.

The Turbo CT badge was fitted to the side door cappings only on an estate
though this model was badged a VSX on the boot. If your documentation
lists the car as a 2.0i VSX then it could very well have had a conversion at
some point in it's past.

I'm just intrigued as it could be a special order car from new or an engine
conversion to a VSX - either way a rare car as it's an Activa albeit without
the non leany bits'n bobs!

Andrew

xmexclusive · Post by **xmexclusive** » 23 Feb 2010, 12:32

Hi Jim

Got a Xantia Coolant thermostat Evolution note dated Jan 1997.
Citroen state that from ORGA 7190 onwards they are adopting 83 degree stats on XU engines.
This is simply a parts standardisation move not a technically driven change.
They note that a 83 stat may also be fitted to older engines.
Checking stats:
Stats are marked 83 or 89.
Opening at 83 (+0,-3) or 89 (+0,-3).
Opening check 83 - 7.5mm at 95 or 89 - 7.5mm at 101.

John

seisporting · Post by **seisporting** » 23 Feb 2010, 13:13

You could use a Fuel cut defender to let the ECU see higher boost levels http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/products/ ... 4501-RA002
This allows the ECU to see a higher range of boost and should work fine.
Hope this helps.
http://www.teamfc3s.org/info/articles/fcd/diy_fcd.htm
edit
This explains how it works a bit better (albeit for a RX7)

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