Is this a head gasket failure?
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Is this a head gasket failure?
My wife came home yesterday complaining that the heater had stopped working on her Xsara (T reg 1.4 petrol) and that it was overheating slightly (temperature gauge on about 100°C).
On investigating I found that the radiator was only about half full, there there were puddles of water on the bodywork under the radiator indicating that it was a recent leak and there was a grey sludge of emulsified oil around the filler neck. I know the radiator was full and there was no grey sludge a few hundred miles ago.
My immediate reaction was to suspect the head gasket (oil in the water and signs that the coolant had vented under pressure), however this evening I refilled and bled the system and took it for a short drive where I observed that there appeared to be a leak from the joint where the bottom hose joins the radiator and that there was no evidence of excessive pressure building up in the radiator.
So it looks as if the problem might be a simple leaking hose/radiator, but then where did the emulsified oil come from?
Any thoughts or suggestions?
Thanks,
Martin.
On investigating I found that the radiator was only about half full, there there were puddles of water on the bodywork under the radiator indicating that it was a recent leak and there was a grey sludge of emulsified oil around the filler neck. I know the radiator was full and there was no grey sludge a few hundred miles ago.
My immediate reaction was to suspect the head gasket (oil in the water and signs that the coolant had vented under pressure), however this evening I refilled and bled the system and took it for a short drive where I observed that there appeared to be a leak from the joint where the bottom hose joins the radiator and that there was no evidence of excessive pressure building up in the radiator.
So it looks as if the problem might be a simple leaking hose/radiator, but then where did the emulsified oil come from?
Any thoughts or suggestions?
Thanks,
Martin.
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How far are most of her journeys and how hard does she drive the car?
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Failed Oil cooler, opps, does the 1.4 have an oil cooler?
If theres a LOT of short journeys, this will ALSO show mayonaise in the oil filler cap, and must not be confused with a failled head gasket..
Petrol engines need a GOOD 10 to 15 min run to warm the engine FULLY and stop this "Mayonaise" from forming..
Diesels DO NOT suffer this Mayo problem..
Paul
If theres a LOT of short journeys, this will ALSO show mayonaise in the oil filler cap, and must not be confused with a failled head gasket..
Petrol engines need a GOOD 10 to 15 min run to warm the engine FULLY and stop this "Mayonaise" from forming..
Diesels DO NOT suffer this Mayo problem..
Paul
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A very sad...
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No it doesn't have an oil cooler.citroenxm wrote:Failed Oil cooler, opps, does the 1.4 have an oil cooler?
Sorry if I wasn't 100% clear, it's the radiator filler cap which has emulsified oil in it. There is no evidence of water in the sump.citroenxm wrote:If theres a LOT of short journeys, this will ALSO show mayonaise in the oil filler cap, and must not be confused with a failled head gasket..
Paul
Martin.
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Hmm, the mayonnaise suggests it could be an HG failure....
But as I've discovered with my car (which does have a coolant leak, however it is a ZX diesel) that these radiators seem to contain much more than enough coolant so that the engine does not overheat if leaking.
But when it gets very low there is no longer sufficient volume in the coolant and it boils, which could account for why the gauge sat at 100C and why there was apparently coolant disappearing through the radiator cap.
Anyway, if the head hasn't gone by now. It could do if it overheats badly, 100C isn't too bad. Plonk a few bottles of water in the boot and religiously top it up until the leak is fixed.
See if you can get the sniff test done at a garage somewhere to find out the condition of the HG.
But as I've discovered with my car (which does have a coolant leak, however it is a ZX diesel) that these radiators seem to contain much more than enough coolant so that the engine does not overheat if leaking.
But when it gets very low there is no longer sufficient volume in the coolant and it boils, which could account for why the gauge sat at 100C and why there was apparently coolant disappearing through the radiator cap.
Anyway, if the head hasn't gone by now. It could do if it overheats badly, 100C isn't too bad. Plonk a few bottles of water in the boot and religiously top it up until the leak is fixed.
See if you can get the sniff test done at a garage somewhere to find out the condition of the HG.
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DO NOT! Just plonk STRAIGHT water in!! MAKE Sure its an antifreeze mix, this is so that if the HG is still in good order you WILL NOT Rust up the cooling system and block the HG up with rust deposits!!
Paul
Paul
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
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A very sad...
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Sorry to say that it looks pretty conclusive to me; in most engines, the only way dirty oil can get into the cooling system is via the head-gasket - the seal around the oilway joint from block to head leaks (usually due to overheating) allowing oil under much higher pressure than the cooling system to escape where it will. Depending where this oilway is (often near a corner of the block), there's often a tell-tale leak to the outside as well.
However, I suggest you don't do anything immediately - keep a careful eye on the coolant temperature and level and watch for more oil in the coolant.
That leaves the question of the original cause of over-heating. When was the thermostat last changed? They only last about 4 or 5 years.
However, I suggest you don't do anything immediately - keep a careful eye on the coolant temperature and level and watch for more oil in the coolant.
That leaves the question of the original cause of over-heating. When was the thermostat last changed? They only last about 4 or 5 years.
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The mayo on the Coolant cap could be that the system has had a certain amount of gunge in it and that as the water boiled this got deposited as it was being vented out of the cap.
I'd flush the system and then back flush it and ensure that a good water/anti freeze mix is put in, making the mix stronger will be better as some will allow you to put more in if you wanter lower temp protection as per the very cold snaps we seem to get in the UK. This is more important as for the first few miles of a trip in the morning after a free over night the coolant in the radiator actually drops to a much lower temp than it was at due to the windchill factor. This eventually gets subsided once the thermostat opens up but on journeys as short as you describe its possible a thermostat never opens. It really needs a day or two of longer journeys and an italian tune up!
I'd flush the system and then back flush it and ensure that a good water/anti freeze mix is put in, making the mix stronger will be better as some will allow you to put more in if you wanter lower temp protection as per the very cold snaps we seem to get in the UK. This is more important as for the first few miles of a trip in the morning after a free over night the coolant in the radiator actually drops to a much lower temp than it was at due to the windchill factor. This eventually gets subsided once the thermostat opens up but on journeys as short as you describe its possible a thermostat never opens. It really needs a day or two of longer journeys and an italian tune up!
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Something else to bear in mind with the TU engine is it's propensity for air-locks in the cooling system.
If the water level drops low, an air-lock can result which can be very persistent. I've seen it on a few 106s..
Give the system a good, full bleed and make sure it's been effective by checking both the heater works well, that the main rad is hot all over and the cooling fan starts and stops appropriately...
If it is the HG, the redeeming feature of the 8V TU is how easy it is to replace it and plenty of room in the Xsara bay as well
If the water level drops low, an air-lock can result which can be very persistent. I've seen it on a few 106s..
Give the system a good, full bleed and make sure it's been effective by checking both the heater works well, that the main rad is hot all over and the cooling fan starts and stops appropriately...
If it is the HG, the redeeming feature of the 8V TU is how easy it is to replace it and plenty of room in the Xsara bay as well
Jim
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
just to add, the TU is a sod to bleed the first time you do it.
a BIG pocket of air will get trapped in the head behind the thermostat and will stop it from opening until very hot. there is a bleed screw next to it.
Put a jack under the o/s/f jacking point to maximise results
the best way to do it is open all bleed screws (3) and slowly fill with coolant until a stream of coolant comes out of each bleed point, close off and start the engine.
with the engine running re-open each one in turn to make sure all air is gone.
Voila.
Worked everytime
a BIG pocket of air will get trapped in the head behind the thermostat and will stop it from opening until very hot. there is a bleed screw next to it.
Put a jack under the o/s/f jacking point to maximise results
the best way to do it is open all bleed screws (3) and slowly fill with coolant until a stream of coolant comes out of each bleed point, close off and start the engine.
with the engine running re-open each one in turn to make sure all air is gone.
Voila.
Worked everytime
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If you have a slight leak, id strongly recommend Forte radiator stop leak - possibly available on ebay. It does actually work and ive seen it cure failing headgaskets. I also cured a HG problem on my old AX, which really worked, i never had to top up the cooling system again in the next 3 months before i sold the car.
Its certainly worth a try in my opinion.
Its certainly worth a try in my opinion.
Chris
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