Front Shock absorber has negligible damping effect [2.7.5]

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

Post Reply
bxman
Posts: 113
Joined: 02 Jan 2008, 22:43
Location: hereford/worcs( malvern)
My Cars:

Front Shock absorber has negligible damping effect [2.7.5]

Post by bxman »

Can anyone give guidance as to the VOSA requirements are for a Citroen
Xantia. in this respect. see subject of post

My 1.8i 16v failed this morning on 4 grounds .
Nearside and offside as in post.
offside stop light not working [ 1.3.2a] { although working when delivered and when collected} as confirmed by the manager even when trying to provoke fault by hitting offending lamp}
and nearside windscreen washer provides insufficient washer liquid [8.2.3]
there being a partial obstruction to one of it's two jets

Thanks, would particularly welcome Martins thoughts

best wishes to all
Patrick. (still slightly angry )

half a dozen xantia with identical characteristics
User avatar
Xaccers
Posts: 7654
Joined: 07 Feb 2007, 23:46
Location: Milling around Milton Keynes
My Cars:
x 184

Post by Xaccers »

1. Dead front spheres. With the engine running and at normal height, are you able to push the nose of the car up and down easily? If you can then ask the tester to clarify the issue, if you can't and it's rock hard, then buy new sphers from GSF.
2. Send the tester to specsavers if it was working when you dropped the car off and when it returned :)
3. Get an pin and clean it out, remove the jet and blow compressed air through it, use a cotton bud to clean out it's inside. Make it spotless, likewise with the washer pipes which over the years get gummed up with algae and dirt.
1.9TD+ SX Xantia Estate (Cassy) running on 100% veg
1.9TD SX Xantia Hatchback (Jenny) running on 100% veg for sale
Laguna II 2.0dCi Privilege (Monty)

DIY sphere tool
bxman
Posts: 113
Joined: 02 Jan 2008, 22:43
Location: hereford/worcs( malvern)
My Cars:

subject

Post by bxman »

Thanks Xac
Spheres are fine genuine and probably less than 15k from new.

Just wasted 45 mins on VOSA site, there is a £28 book available by post that may inform on standard of Shock Absorbing required and may be not.

IMO the tester could have cleared the jet in less time than it took him in adding the fault to the list.
citroenxm
Posts: 8061
Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto

2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Post by citroenxm »

I beleve the MOT tester is NOT obliged to do ANY work on your car during a test WITHOUT your permission to rectify and faults when found..

If they break something while trying to get something working, they are liable for repair!

UNLESS you tell them specifically, can you Give me an MOT and DO any work thats needed to get it through they will NOT touch anything.

Paul
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
User avatar
myglaren
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 25362
Joined: 02 Mar 2008, 13:30
Location: Washington
My Cars: Mazda 6
Ooops.
Previously:
2009 Honda Civic :(
C5, C5, Xantia, BX, GS, Visa.
R4, R11TXE, R14, R30TX
x 4888

Post by myglaren »

The place I take mine will replace blown bulbs as a matter of course - they don't charge for them :)
Deanxm
Posts: 3327
Joined: 18 Dec 2008, 17:57
Location: Isle of wight
My Cars: Citroen XM
x 87

Post by Deanxm »

My XM goes to our only Citroen main dealer for M.O.T's and they will do headlamp alignment and bulbs for free, so long as its not headlamp bulbs as they are expensive ish, mind you i think they are kind of taken with the car.

Regarding your fail, it suggests there was movement of the suspension but very little damping..sounds like someone doesnt understand citroen suspension..... ................................

D
XM Prestige PRV6 92
Talbot Express Autotrail Chinook 89
Mitsubishi L200 Trojan 14
Xantia Activa 95, sold (missed)

Service Citroen is awesome, it shows me pictures of all the parts i used to be able to buy............
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 49518
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: Paggers
My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
x 6156
Contact:

Post by CitroJim »

Deanxm wrote: Regarding your fail, it suggests there was movement of the suspension but very little damping..sounds like someone doesnt understand citroen suspension..... ................................
I reckon so Dean. It is vital to take a hydraulic Citroen to a tester who really does understand them. I had one fail at a strange garage once for a leaky rear height corrector. The "leak" was a liberal coating of grease :twisted:

A hydractive model especially can seem very soft to the uninitiated, especially if the test is carried out with the engine running so it's in soft mode.

The only other thing is, do you have the right spheres? You've not got accumulators on the corners have you Patrick? They would certainly give negligible damping...
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Deanxm
Posts: 3327
Joined: 18 Dec 2008, 17:57
Location: Isle of wight
My Cars: Citroen XM
x 87

Post by Deanxm »

The only other thing is, do you have the right spheres? You've not got accumulators on the corners have you Patrick? They would certainly give negligible damping...
That is a good point Jim, non hydractive sphere's on a hydractive car may also cause the same problem although nowhere near as bad.
Might be worth talking to the tester about it tbh, it seems very unlikely/impossible that a hydraulic suspension system could suffer this sort of problem naturaly.

D
XM Prestige PRV6 92
Talbot Express Autotrail Chinook 89
Mitsubishi L200 Trojan 14
Xantia Activa 95, sold (missed)

Service Citroen is awesome, it shows me pictures of all the parts i used to be able to buy............
Pleiades
Posts: 234
Joined: 28 Apr 2008, 21:04
Location: Sunny East Anglia
My Cars:
x 1

Post by Pleiades »

I have had in the past a few rows with MOT guys, they are simply used to getting a Citroen in with the supension feeling like a Vauxhall, ie knackered. When they get one in feeling great, they tend to say that it is far too soft with not enough damping.

Untill MOT guys got the hang of things we used to get them putting the back wheels on the rolling road, then failing it on the handbrake.

I allways say that the Citroen suspension should bounce and feel a lot like a boat in the water, a nice even float down and the same back up and lets face it, if the "normal" car felt like this, you would be saying that the shocks need changing.

I would bet that there is nuffin wrong and the MOT testing chap needs educating, but all the preaching in the world will not allways get him to admit that he is wrong.

It is possible that the only way to sort it will be to get the car MOT'd elswhere and then go back to see the owner of the garage that failed it, show him your pass and insist on a refund of your cost with him, otherwise you will report the events to the dept of transport, no MOT station wants these guys poking about so you will most likely get a full refund.

Regards.
Martin
User avatar
Old-Guy
Posts: 1798
Joined: 11 Sep 2008, 12:08
Location: Gloucestershire
My Cars: 2011 Grand C4 Picasso VTR+ 1.6HDi in Kyanos Blue
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
x 17

Post by Old-Guy »

Martin is absolutely right. Go elsewhere - where the tester is also a mechanic, and is familiar with testing hydraulic Citroens.

A lot of the sections of the MoT test are not in the least scientific - a matter of the tester's opinion and hence knowledge/experience. Testers do not have to be mechanics and in larger workshops are often NOT. This avoid paying someone for 2 qualifications - only 1 of which they can use.

You can check your front spheres against the GSF sphere table.

Demanding a refund may not succeed as the original test station could claim that the car has been 'repaired', but test stations certainly do not like complaints to VoSA.
2011 Grand C4 Picasso VTR+ 1.6HDi in Kyanos Blue
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - after 11 years now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
bxman
Posts: 113
Joined: 02 Jan 2008, 22:43
Location: hereford/worcs( malvern)
My Cars:

subject

Post by bxman »

spheres are 961 693 16
I know I have found them in the past. ( but not tonight) they give me a very satisfactory ride and damp just as well as any other that I have used.
I can see no benefit in changing them .
most grateful Martin and thanks everyone else for the support.
Patrick
f00lzz
Posts: 795
Joined: 28 Mar 2006, 19:30
Location: Sutton Coldfield, West Midlands. UK
My Cars:

Post by f00lzz »

Xac wrote:1. 3. Get an pin and clean it out, remove the jet and blow compressed air through it, use a cotton bud to clean out it's inside. Make it spotless, likewise with the washer pipes which over the years get gummed up with algae and dirt.
I think that a pin will cause damage to the softer jet material.... use fuse wire instead!
Ian
Ian
Account Ref: 6419

Current Cars
Nissan X-Trail SVE
Saab 2.2TiD
Merc E270 Estate

Past Citroens
2001 Xantia 3.0 Exclusive
1999 Xantia 1.9TD
1997 Xantia 3.0 Exclusive
1995 XM 3.0 Exclusive Estate
User avatar
Xaccers
Posts: 7654
Joined: 07 Feb 2007, 23:46
Location: Milling around Milton Keynes
My Cars:
x 184

Post by Xaccers »

f00lzz wrote:
Xac wrote:1. 3. Get an pin and clean it out, remove the jet and blow compressed air through it, use a cotton bud to clean out it's inside. Make it spotless, likewise with the washer pipes which over the years get gummed up with algae and dirt.
I think that a pin will cause damage to the softer jet material.... use fuse wire instead!
Ian
fuse wire if you have it
it's pretty hard abs plastic. at most you'd make a pin prick dent on the inside a fraction of a mm deep.
best i've found is to use it alongside a cotton bud to clean out the inside while the pin/needle/fuse wire keeps the holes clear.

someone suggested removing them carefully as the aged and hardened plastic clips can snap and soak them in hot soapy water
1.9TD+ SX Xantia Estate (Cassy) running on 100% veg
1.9TD SX Xantia Hatchback (Jenny) running on 100% veg for sale
Laguna II 2.0dCi Privilege (Monty)

DIY sphere tool
Citroenmad
Posts: 8125
Joined: 04 Dec 2008, 22:08
Location: Northeast
My Cars: 07 Citroen C6 V6 HDi Exclusive - Red
07 Citroen C5 HDi VTR - Red
09 Citroen C3 1.4i VTR - Silver
01 Citroen Saxo 1.1i Forte - Mango Orange
93 Ford Mondeo 2.0i GLX
19 Hyundai i10
x 110

Post by Citroenmad »

When i took my car in for an MOT its headlight alignment was out. So the dealer failed it, fixed the alignment and passed it. I dont think they can do any work on a car during an MOT, i think its just the way they have to do it. Even though wne i picked the car up i had a failed sheet and a pass sheet and no extra added onto the bill.
Chris
07 Citroen C6 V6 HDi Exclusive - Red
07 Citroen C5 HDi VTR - Red
09 Citroen C3 1.4i VTR - Silver
01 Citroen Saxo 1.1i Forte - Mango Orange
.
93 Ford Mondeo 2.0i GLX
19 Hyundai i10
bxman
Posts: 113
Joined: 02 Jan 2008, 22:43
Location: hereford/worcs( malvern)
My Cars:

subject

Post by bxman »

The saga develops on Wednesday I got the General Manager [D.S.] to come and look at the car we exercised the front suspension and he accepted that he could see nothing unusual about it.
At my request he said that he would establish the precise standards required for the shock absorbing components. It was agreed that I would telephone him personally on the Thursday.

When I did; He told me that the workshop had priced up the parts needed and had prepared an estimate for supplying and the fitting of them.
He did not unfortunately know anything about the standards required for the allegedly faulty components.
He said that his Service Manager [A.O'n.]who was more appropriately qualified, would contact me.
When he did so today { Friday.}
He told me that they did not know what was wrong with the car it could be any one of five different separate components that had an influence on the damping at the front of the car and they would need the car to assess the problem.

The garage is one with a PEUGEOT and CITROEN Franchise that have their own MOT test Department.

Citroen Uk have suggested that I get them to at least compare mine to a C5 or C6 as the suspension characteristics will be similar but the garage do not have access to any hydro suspended Citroen.
The service Manager has promised to contact the
Citroen UK Technical Platform
and contact me again on Monday. I await with interest !
Post Reply