Oilpressure BX 16V

wilhelm · Post by **wilhelm** » 07 May 2003, 18:43

Ihave made a totally renovation of my engine.But when i started it up i have bad oilpressure(3bar at 300rpm and 0,5bar at 900rpm)In Haynes(page 353 Oil pump removal and refitting point 95)
the text says "Before refiting the oil pump,use a new oilseal"There where no oilseal there original? I didn't found it?On the next page (Haynes page 96)it says "Use a new oil pump gasket" I havent found one?
Should you fit some form of gasket/oilseal just because you have disambled the engine/oilpump?
Is the oilpump bad?
Please,what is my problem? I'm rather confused...
Sorry for my bad english.I'm doing my best.
Wilhelm from sweden

Dave Burns · Post by **Dave Burns** » 07 May 2003, 19:14

What have you done in terms of renovation, have you had the crankshaft or camshafts re-ground, or anything else that could alter oil pressure.
Its unusual to find a seal between the oil pump and the block because it doesn't matter if it leaks a small amount, it just drops back into the sump, but thats not to say there isn't one as I'm not familiar with this engine.
Dave

vanny · Post by **vanny** » 07 May 2003, 19:38

You may want to ask on the 16v forum as well, they pretty much all have Mi16's there. the address is
http://pub38.bravenet.com/forum/show.ph ... 4234&cpv=1
you may have look asking the Pug boys at the PGAC forum, there are a lot with Mi16s who can probably help;
www.pgac.co.uk
other than that im of no use, sorry

wilhelm · Post by **wilhelm** » 08 May 2003, 02:46

Neither the crankshaft or the camshafts are reground.(what I know..)
Perhaps I have got the wrong bearings..? The pistonrings are new but that should not matter i think.
I am going to look at the oilpump and see if there something strange with it.
But i still can't understand what Haynes means by "fit a new oilseal"
Wilhelm

Dave Burns · Post by **Dave Burns** » 08 May 2003, 03:56

On the diesels (and probably the petrols) there is an aluminium oil seal housing bolted to the block, this holds the crankshaft oil seal but has to be removed to gain access to the oil pump chain drive sprocket, do you think Haynes might be refering to this seal, if the oil pump drive is as the diesels its a possibility.
Dave

alan s · Post by **alan s** » 08 May 2003, 18:13

Wilhelm,
Out of curiosity, how do you know what the oil pressure is?
Have you had a proper gauge on it or are you working off the one fitted to the car as standard?
If so, they are notorious for being inaccurate; I'd get a proper check done using a gauge other than the one fitted in the car to get a second reading as you may be worrying unnecessarily.
Alan S

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » 08 May 2003, 23:40

Guys -
I had a discussion with Wilhelm on the Scandinavian forum on this oil pump/pressure problem. Wilhelm forgot to add here the fact, that also the 0.6bar oil pressure sensor makes the lamp flicker at engine idle. Furthermore mineral 10W-40 (was synt) has been tried no help.
It appears that the 16V & 16/19 oilpump bits are the same, or at least very much looks the same. Having removed the oilpump from a standard 16 engine my own, there seems to be no seals at all. Only the oilpump housing cover has a seal.
To my best, the construction principle of the oil pump makes it nearly everlasting [?][?]
What about the 16V head hyd. tappet followers, or oil supply in general here [?]
Any hints here related to oil pressure [?]
Any possible ideas from you good folks would be great help.

€urotech · Post by **€urotech** » 08 May 2003, 23:56

well the oil you use for a start could be under the thaught? i use FULL 100% synthetic on my cosworth, but thats not to say you cant use it on your car regardless of the engine ( it is the through flow of the oil that counts ) on track days i use 0-10wM1 and on normal i use 0-40w, the oil pressure difference is majour, on cars for the road i would recommend full synthetic 5-30w as this is the norm as hydrolic lifters love the freedom, if you need performance the go to solid lifters dynamic, or hydrolic nitro cooled

wilhelm · Post by **wilhelm** » 09 May 2003, 14:46

The oilpressure are measured with a externial pressuregauge direktly on the engine,not the original on the dash.
I have checked with my local citroendealer and the pump are the same for all engine(16/19,diesel to-92)He also says that there is no seals between the pump and enginecase(besides the shimes)
The crank was not regrounded and i had got the right bearings.
Another thing is that the hydralic tap followers tend to rattle at 2000-3000rpm, can this have something to do with the oilpressure? Or is it just because i have a bad pressure?
Perhaps I should buy new ones?
Wilhelm

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » 09 May 2003, 22:49

I would get your oil pressure problem solved before looking atthe tappets. If the oil pressure is that low the feed to the valve gear is probably very poor and there may be insufficient oil for them to work properly.
Sounds to me as though you have accidentally fitted standard shells to a reground crank or something. Have you got the old shells? - are there any markings on them that might suggest they are undersize or standard? Did you have the crankshaft bearings measured?
Another possibility for low oil pressure can be camshaft problems. have you overhauled the head?
jeremy

Dave Burns · Post by **Dave Burns** » 09 May 2003, 23:16

Have you had the pump or the relief valve to pieces.
Dave

alan s · Post by **alan s** » 15 May 2003, 07:57

I don't know if I'm way off mark with this one, but isn't there a part of the oil pump drive assembly on a 16V that's actually shrunk on & which has been known to just "let go?" Or alternatively, held by a woodruff key that may have partially sheared?
This being the case, would it be possible that perhaps in this instance it is possibly slipping on the shaft & hence not capable of driving at normal speed?
I now it sounds a bit hocus pocus but it seems the logical explanations have all been covered & discounted so now's the time to start checking out the illogical ones.[;)][}:)]
Alan S

Dave Burns · Post by **Dave Burns** » 16 May 2003, 03:58

Not hocus pocus at all Alan, thats a blody good suggestion if you ask me, and to my mind goes some way to explaining the drop in pressure at higher engine speeds as faster bearing speeds should have a higher oil through put, so the pressure drops as a result maybe.
I'd be having a look at the sprocket now and see if the woodruff is where it should be.
Just got to be something simple like this.
Dave

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » 16 May 2003, 08:44

In fact there are 2 woodruff keys on this axle ned...
1 for oilpump sprocket + cambelt sprocket & 1 for Vbelt....