timing holes dont make sense!!! but sorted now cheers

spliffy · Post by **spliffy** » 01 Jan 2010, 13:55

please help i have a 1998 xantia 2.0l turbo (petrol) 8 valve i have had to put a new bottom end on my engine i have come to setting up the belt timing and hit a big snag when i put the timing pin in the bottom end timing holes thats ok the two end pots are at tdc but when i put the timing pin in the top end (timing hole in head about 10 o clock) the inlet valve nearest thermostat housing(fly wheel end) is wide open now a piston at tdc and a wide open valve do not work i can not find any more timing holes either on head or cam sprocket. it would also be helpfull to know which end is number one piston the lpg conversion has cylinder (A) going to timing belt end but haynes have it at fly wheel end i hope somebody can shed some light on this for me as i am totally stuck on getting my car back on the road cheers

deian · Post by **deian** » 01 Jan 2010, 14:12

Well paul told me the other day the french have their piston 1 on the fly wheel end, so maybe thats your problem, re-align the head to time for piston 1, but also make sure that piston 1 is tdc (flywheel end), also make sure the bottom end isn't 180 degrees out to the head.

spliffy · Post by **spliffy** » 01 Jan 2010, 14:25

hi mate i dont know how you could have your crankshaft 180 degrees out this would mean the piston is at the bottom when i put in the bottom end timing pin 1 and 4 are at tdc which is correct the problem is the cam am i correct that you say it times up on fly wheel end so that means i need both cam lobes up over (correct) but how do i time it exactly with no timing holes

Chlorate · Post by **Chlorate** » 01 Jan 2010, 14:30

It's a bit late for it now, but the easiest way to avoid this is to mark up your belt and sprockets with tippex before taking it off.

I'm certain someone more knowledgable will come along shortly.

Good luck

-Alex

deian · Post by **deian** » 01 Jan 2010, 14:43

yes, if your piston 1 and 4 is tdc then the bottom end is set,

so you need to make sure the cam is set for piston 1 (flywheel end), the marks would not be on the flywheel end, but on the belt end

i can't recall how the rotor arm is on the ct engine (if it has one, maybe by 1998 it was a coilpack), but on a car i recently did, the rotor arm was turned by the camshaft, so by looking at when it would line up with the dizzy cap ht lead sending a spark to cylinder 1 you knew roughly it was in the right area, then you look for some marks, there could be a dot on the cog that lines up with the something on the engine, or the inner timing cover,

good luck

Post by **CitroJim** » 01 Jan 2010, 14:45

On these engines you MUST NEVER use the timing hole in the crank pulley if the pulley is a dual-mass type (i.e. has a rubber band in the middle of it). The hole is on the outer and it's a sure bet the outer will have moved relative to the inner over time and put the timing hole in the wrong place.

I use an old solid pulley from a 205GTi engine for this job. The timing hole is in the right place and being a solid pulley you know it has not moved over time.

A solid pulley from any early XU engine will be good for this job.

spliffy · Post by **spliffy** » 01 Jan 2010, 14:47

my car is the ct turbo it has a coil pack there is a pot mark on the out side edge of the cam sprocket but im non the wiser on where it lines up cant find any marks

Deanxm · Post by **Deanxm** » 01 Jan 2010, 17:39

Hi spliffy

None of these engines time up at TDC, the crank when pinned leaves the piston crowns all in line halfway down/up the bores so as to ovoid any valve contact on reasembly, i done a 'how to' on timing up a tct engine on the xm forum but you would need to of signed up to see it, surely someone has done a TCT cam belt replacement guide here with the timming covered???

http://www.club-xm.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=412

D

Post by **CitroJim** » 01 Jan 2010, 18:19

Deanxm wrote:surely someone has done a TCT cam belt replacement guide here with the timming covered???

Oddly no, I don't think so Dean, it would be most valuable to post your guide on her if at all possible?.

Spliffy, do you need to know where the cam should be in relation to the crank locking position?

If you are timing from scratch, the problem is that the cam sprocket (pinned through an index hole into the head) could go in one of two positions 180 degrees apart as it rotates half-speed compared to the crank...

Deanxm · Post by **Deanxm** » 01 Jan 2010, 18:46

Jim, ive just looked at the guide and its been left in the same rushed state i left it, it was done for a nice chap on CXM who had a tensioner colapse on him and i guess i forgot all about it, i will tidy it up a bit and post it here too if thats ok with you then, i just thought this being one of, if not THE best source of Activa information someone would have done one...............i guess being an easy belt to change like the TU's theres not really been any need?

D

Post by **CitroJim** » 01 Jan 2010, 18:51

Thanks Dean

That'll be just perfect!

Yes, indeed, such an easy belt to do provided you have a solid crank pulley for reference purposes and have not totally lost the cam/crank relationship...

Post by **myglaren** » 01 Jan 2010, 18:51

The site can never have too much information Dean.
It is all of value to someone.

Deanxm · Post by **Deanxm** » 01 Jan 2010, 18:55

Ok then gents i will get it sorted this week with a few extra photo's since i have a few spare bare engines.
Do you you not just pin the crank pully and use the 1/4 square bar then Jim? i do have a few solid pulleys but have usually timed them up with the pulley off...........

D

Post by **CitroJim** » 01 Jan 2010, 19:14

No, I always slip on my trusty old 205GTi pulley for timing the crank...

The hole to use is the bigger one between the two smaller ones at 2 o'clock in the picture below.

That picture is useful to see how far "out" a dual-mass pulley has become...

Deanxm · Post by **Deanxm** » 01 Jan 2010, 19:28

There seems to be an almost unlimited amount of different pulleys used on these engines, there is a dual mass one that can slip and mess the timing points up because the timing holes are in the outer section, a D/M one that wont mess your timing up when it slips as the locking pin goes through the inner part but angled out at 45 deg ish to meet the same locking point, then there is solid copies of the above two types aswell thats 4 plus your GTI one fits, seems like a lot of pulleys just to do the same job

i even tried a dual mass one in place of my solid one and there is no difference in the two i can feel, apart from the cold sweat that comes whenever you hear a aux belt start to squeek a bit because you think its the pulley coming apart and getting ready to throw itself into your timing gear

D