VN05N removal (she's alive!)

DickieG · Post by **DickieG** » 30 Dec 2009, 20:34

deian wrote:I will excitedly give it a whirl tomorrow, i'll be interested to know what faults it will throw up, as richard said, probably every single one of them,

out of curiosity richard, was your job tidier than mine? or is mine tidier, because if your worked and the soldering was similar to mine then i have a chance don't i

will wait till the new year before sending it off to richard, i will throw in some diodes, i have plenty left so again, if anyone needs any let me know, for free of course

One of the codes my one threw up was "Faulty ECU" which under the circumstances made me chuckle

One interesting thing about the HDi ECU getting fried is that both Hydractive blocks had recently been replaced with brand new ones.

I wouldn't say that my job was any tidier than yours at all, so here's hoping

Excuse me if this has already been covered but have you also fitted the additional diodes as an insurance policy in case your repair gets spiked.

deian · Post by **deian** » 30 Dec 2009, 21:02

not yet, i have them, and they will be done while the ecu is at yours getting the memory clear

should i do the diodes before even trying to plug the ecu back in, incase it throws burns the new transistors? i was under the impression that the burning of the transistors is a slow process?

i also wanted to ask, if the ecu has recorded a fault (which it probably has done) and it's reverting to the hard mode, shouldn't that mean there won't be e.valves humming until the faults are cleared anyway?

so if i plug it in and the e.valvles are humming, is it safe to assume a memory clear isn't needed?

diode fix will get done anyway

Post by **Peter.N.** » 30 Dec 2009, 22:12

Don't know about fault codes but all except one of mine responded to having the diodes fitted and are still going (except the one in the car my wife wrote off)

Cant do any harm to fit them. They go on the pads inboard centre of the IC's, cathode end nearest the edge.

Peter

DickieG · Post by **DickieG** » 30 Dec 2009, 22:25

deian wrote:i also wanted to ask, if the ecu has recorded a fault (which it probably has done) and it's reverting to the hard mode, shouldn't that mean there won't be e.valves humming until the faults are cleared anyway?

so if i plug it in and the e.valvles are humming, is it safe to assume a memory clear isn't needed?

Hydractive ECU's still operate to a degree when faults are recorded its just that the ECU operates from default settings so the more codes recorded the less accurate/effective the system is. I'm not sure whether the fault "defective ECU" will be serious enough to stop it working completely, I'll have to look it up in the manual.

In answer to your second question I'd view a memory code clear as essential in this instance.

The difficult thing with Hydractive is that unless the car is an Activa its not easy to tell whether the system is working correctly, especially if the car is petrol powered as that means you can't even listen to the system switching between modes on the car radio.

DickieG · Post by **DickieG** » 30 Dec 2009, 22:32

I've just checked in the manual and it states that faulty electrovalves and ECU recorded faults will put the suspension into "Emercency strategy" firm suspension. However that doesn't mean that the electrovalves won't hum when opening a door as they may be activated in order to balance out the pressures within different hydraulic circuits.

deian · Post by **deian** » 30 Dec 2009, 23:13

ok cool, i will hook it up tomorrow and listen out, engine off, it'll be ineresting to see what condition my centre spheres are and whether there will be much difference, tbh, i don't remember how much of a difference there was on my previous xantias, but i do believe it should be noticable,

will report back in the morning, be nice if the wind stops blowing, at least i would be able to hear something then

Post by **Peter.N.** » 30 Dec 2009, 23:21

You really need to fit new centre spheres to make sure the system is working correctly, if the spheres are flat you will feel no difference.

Peter

deian · Post by **deian** » 30 Dec 2009, 23:26

will see how it feels tomorrow, if the system has been broken like that for a while then maybe they aren't as flat as they would be if they were getting daily use, maybe if i am lucky they have had VERY little use, but more than likely they are the original center spheres,

deian · Post by **deian** » 31 Dec 2009, 12:54

no life from the electro valves, hopefully a memory clear will restore functionality

is there a special way to plug it back in to make it work, i plugged it in with the ignition off

will do the diode thing when the weather decides what it wants to do

Post by **Peter.N.** » 31 Dec 2009, 14:57

It could possibly be a power failure to the ECU, I had this happen on the white one, there should be 12v on the thick yellow leads which was mising on mine, after a lot of rewiring I found the problem was with the white plug under the dash below the steering wheel.

Peter

deian · Post by **deian** » 31 Dec 2009, 15:12

ok, i will dig out a wiring diagram i will have on here somewhere amongst my mess, actually i have the proper citroen technical documentation for hydractive 2 somewhere, i really must get myself in gear, that will show me where the diodes will go.

should the ecu have constant power? if so, what pin is plus and what is minus, or is minus any earth?

Post by **Peter.N.** » 31 Dec 2009, 15:35

Its just occurred to me I may be talking rubbish - again as I am visualising an XM

But the ECU looks very similar so the permanent 12v supply goes to two thick wires on I believe the black plug, they are right at one end I seem to remember.

Peter

deian · Post by **deian** » 31 Dec 2009, 15:57

i wouldn't say your talking rubbish, you are one of the wiser people on this forum and whatever you say i will take in good faith

when you talk about xm hydractive, do you mean hydractive 1? if so, they may be different yes, the one on the xantia is hydractive 2 of course,

on my wiring diagram here for hydractive 2: pin 1 and 2 for the black plug is +direct, i assume this is permanent live? as there us a pin 5 too which is 'computer + after ignition',

both earths links back to the brake pedal switch (and then onto pin 11 on black), so if this is stuck then it would throw a supply fault up or not get a supply at all

well it's getting dark for me to be messing with the diodes now, so i will do that tomorrow, does it matter which earth i solder to 8 or 15? they both lead to the same place anyway. funny how the earths (8 and 15) are labeled black ('nr' being noir?), when they are green/yellow in reality.

i will check all the fuses again tomorrow, i can see 4 fuses to check on the electrical diagram here, i assume fuse8 is in the engine compartment and is the main one, i'm sure i checked that and it's looked ok, there is fuse2 for the test light on the dash, and fuse12 which leads to the movement sensor supply and the switched supply (pin 5 black) and fuse 19 (for the hard/soft switch), to check too, i presume any of these could make it throw a wobbly

Post by **Peter.N.** » 31 Dec 2009, 17:05

No, hydractive 2 are the ones I have had experience with and there are two heavy-ish feed wires, both strapped together that supply a permanant 12 volts. Your PCB looks remarkably like the XM type. I will have a look tomorrow and see if I can identify the appropriate pins - its dark now and I have to go out soon.

Peter

f00lzz · Post by **f00lzz** » 31 Dec 2009, 20:41

deian wrote:Finally, here is naked wing, that was all solder, how they managed to weld that on so firmly and flat is beyond me (probably a machine):

Notice the drilled holes ready for the new transistors

The legs are a proper pain to bend, they have to be exact and if they are out by 1mm the back won't bend flat onto the wing.

Job done, I know i know i know, it's not tidy...

I had to use a lot of solder to hold the backs down, they may reopen/move under heat, so I don't expect this to be a permanent fix, I just want to see if it is at all possible to make it work, if it does and for however long it holds good, I have spare VN05N's here so I can do a better job next time.

Here's the underside:

Again, soldering isn't great... at all. But it should work. While it's away getting it's memory cleared I will put new do the diodes on the car. I have a hundred here, i'll grab ten, use two, so if anyone wants some, pm me, i'll gladly send anyone a few for free in an envelope (they're only 4p each). What am I going to do with a hundred!??!?

This board looks as if it has been Hot Air Solder Levelled.. this allows the components which are Surface Mount (in the majority) to be stuck onto a flat surface with solder paste and then 'reflowed' and yes you are correct.. largely done by machine. I also note some contamination underneath the Solder Resist, this may cause problems later..