Tube gauge

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 29 Dec 2009, 10:26

Sounds about right actually Jim... you hit the union on the head there

Paul

Old-Guy · Post by **Old-Guy** » 29 Dec 2009, 10:40

I believe there's a very good technical reason why Citroen decided to use 'non-standard' pipe and 'ends': To prevent the use of 'standard' brake pipe and flares, neither of which will be reliable under the much higher hydraulic pressures used in the Citroen system.

lexi · Post by **lexi** » 29 Dec 2009, 10:51

Yes I have it as 3.5mm and 4.5mm on diagram. So 1.8 mm wall thickness.............yes Old Guy that is a heavy tube !! That is around 15 SWG gauge in old money. I aint taken an hydraulic union apart on Cit yet. If they are all like the one in previous link then you cannot make that same joint with a flaring tool.

I have a good Sykes one whiich is £150 quid and that wont make that swage . Also an industrial refrigeration kit that don`t do it either....so it is interesting

It seems to be the same swage that you make when you want to put a rubber hose over a pipe to ensure a tight fit....then put hose clip on other side of bulge /swage

Maybe some guys have made a double flare and got away with it I don`t know.........or approve of course.

Would like to see some better pics of the tool/swager in action. I can get the pipes no problem up here......any sizes!
I know I could get pipes from Martin but it`s the fun of it all 8)

xmexclusive · Post by **xmexclusive** » 29 Dec 2009, 10:59

Hi All

Just run the calipers over a joining pipe from a BEM Muller (Citroen) test kit.
The respective pipes outside diameters measured just a fraction under the nominal 3.5mm (3.49) and 4.5mm (4.46) while the internal diameters were 1.91mm and 2.67mm. That gives a wall thickness of 0.8mm for the 3.5mm pipe and of 0.9mm for the 4.5mm pipe.

On making the flares for these small pipes it does require a special tool.
There are a couple of designs available but you need to sort out how you are going to use the kit before you buy. Making up pipes to length and spec in a workshop is much easier than flaring the end of an existing pipe on a car. For the workshop job there is a big tool on ebay for just under £200 that will make both 3.5 and 4.5 pipe ends. You just need to get the pipe length measurements right. Not as easy as you expect unless you have a pattern to follow. If you want to work on the car then the small compact tools from Pliades will get you into the difficult corners that some of the joints always seem to be in. Seperate tools are needed for 3.5 and 4.5 pipe. Tools cost around £65 each when I bought my 3.5 one about two years ago. Pliades supply some very useful consumables too. The CuNi pipe with its rust free properties can easily repay its purchase cost for under a UK car. The joiners to cut out a bit of leaking pipe are very useful even just as a temporary fix. Finally the non standard flare nuts with larger spanner flats to reduce the risk of rounding particularly on 3.5mm joints.

John

lexi · Post by **lexi** » 29 Dec 2009, 11:07

Nice one John

xmexclusive · Post by **xmexclusive** » 29 Dec 2009, 11:36

Hi Lexi

Yes saw we were typing in at much the same time.
Have edited in a bit more about tools and pipe choice now.
The BEM MULLER kits were originally designed for pressure testing on the DS and are supposed to contain a selection of joining pipes, blanks, tees and gauges so I assume that the pipe is to original Citroen spec. They just happen to have turned up in a job lot of Citroen tools that Dean and I bought off ebay just before christmas. Still need to go through those to sort out who gets what. The autobox stuff turned out to be AL4 and HP20 when Dean wanted HP18. Some very interesting items such as a blanking disc to fit instead of a sphere when pressure testing on the car. Then we also have to decide who gets the sphere tester if it actually works.

John

Post by **CitroJim** » 29 Dec 2009, 11:42

xmexclusive wrote:The autobox stuff turned out to be AL4 and HP20 when Dean wanted HP18.

John,

I'd be VERY interested in the AL4 and 4HP20 tools you have if not already spoken for. I can make good use of them...

xmexclusive · Post by **xmexclusive** » 29 Dec 2009, 11:57

Hi Jim

You are slow, that took all of 6 minutes.

John

Post by **CitroJim** » 29 Dec 2009, 12:22

xmexclusive wrote:Hi Jim

You are slow, that took all of 6 minutes.

John

I'm not a fast typist John!

xmexclusive · Post by **xmexclusive** » 29 Dec 2009, 13:01

Hi Jim

I am supposed to be taking photos of the ten or so test kits we won and I picked up from Wales. I will be sending the photos to Dean so he can see what we have obtained. That may take a little while but is the easiest way with Dean living on the IOW. Then we decide on the split between us and distribution or disposal of the remainder. You did get a mention when Dean and I talked about the autobox stuff.
In checking things out I looked for the Citroen 4034T sphere tester in the XM workshop manual. Found some photos of a totally different one (earlier I think) but same part number though. There was also a very interesting note about being able to use an injector tester for sphere testing.

"NOTE: The "Le Bozec" pump used on test benches for checking DIESEL injectors can be resorted to for testing components operating with LHM mineral fluid provided that the bench is cleaned first".

There was an Injector tester in the lot as well, must look to see if it is marked "Le Bozec".

John

Post by **CitroJim** » 29 Dec 2009, 13:04

Thanks John,

That's brilliant

I really appreciate it. I shall wait patiently whilst you and Dean deliberate....

lexi · Post by **lexi** » 29 Dec 2009, 16:36

Excellent guys

Can`t beat having proper tools. There are a few good Hydraulic specialists around here...I will keep my eyes peeled . I know that lots of that gear is CIT Specific. It is amazing the things you come upon which will cross over though.