Should it stay or should it go?

Post by **CitroJim** » 28 Dec 2009, 11:58

That's good news Nigel

falling-out-with-my-car wrote:Right then,
just wish I could get a complete drivers door they seem to be very scarce indeed. it doesnt matter what colour as long as its off a MK2 xantia and complete including electrics and everything ie ready to spray, hang and plug in.

Got a perfect silver one here, from the V6 we're breaking.

Have a natter with xantiav6 regarding cost and could be yours. Not far away either...

The mirror has already been spoken for...

Post by **Peter.N.** » 28 Dec 2009, 12:37

Hi Nigel

There are quite a few Xantias being broken on ebay, I would have thought at least one of them would have a good drivers door.

I personally would avoid an Hdi engine, they are more economical but the savings can be wiped out the first time it goes wrong.

I'm going to stick with XM's for as long as I can maintain them.

Peter

falling-out-with-my-car · Post by **falling-out-with-my-car** » 29 Dec 2009, 12:23

Sounds Good Jim,

But have you ever tried fitting a new mirror, its a real pain in the A-r-s-e job. and need two pairs of hands to get it right.

I fitted one to my existing door with some help and the manual remote leads caught under the window glass they are very short leads,

I bought an aftermarket mirror for £30 but the remote toggle was cheap and nasty and snapped within days.

A proper citroen Mirror comes in at £120 and has a stronger toggle.

I ended up having to bond the mirror to the door frame with body panel glue what a nightmare.

so I understand why the mirror is spoken for and would like to try to source a complete door if you dont mind Jim.

I would rather pay a decent price for a complete unit than have to pay out for another citroen mirror, as the after market ones dont seem to be up to the job.

cheers Nigel.

Old-Guy · Post by **Old-Guy** » 29 Dec 2009, 12:51

Nigel

If you want a Xantia without (engine) electronics and doors that don't rust, you need a 1.9TD S1 prior to Model Year 96 (that's when they introduced the emmissions crap and an engine ECU to control it. The only ECU on my run-out '95MY is for the ABS (and it plays silly whatsits from time to time).

Post by **CitroJim** » 29 Dec 2009, 13:01

falling-out-with-my-car wrote:I understand why the mirror is spoken for and would like to try to source a complete door if you dont mind Jim.

No worries Nigel. The mirror in question is an indexing one so rare (thus expensive) and very sought-after!

I've fitted electric mirrors but never even seen a Xantia with a manual mirror

I may have a standard electric mirror about but not a manual. I reckon they're rarer than indexing mirrors

I don't see the problem with ECUs

The diesel pump one is totally relaible (never known one fail) and if it does the car will still run (albeit retarded) The needle lift sensor does pack up occasionally but again, it does not stop the car.

Generally, ECUs are pretty reliable these days.

falling-out-with-my-car · Post by **falling-out-with-my-car** » 29 Dec 2009, 16:19

Jim, I have an electric passenger side mirror and a manual drivers side mirror I guess the passenger one was an optional extra when new.
the car is an SX.

As for ECU's someone else brought that one up above, they are far to techy for me to mention in any thread.

have pm'd Xantiav6 about the door anyway, I could have another go at getting and fitting a manual mirror, never say die eh?

regards Nigel.

Old-Guy · Post by **Old-Guy** » 29 Dec 2009, 16:32

My objection to the use of electronics in vehicles is tthree-fold:- while the units (ECUs sensors etc) themselves are very reliable, but manufacturers will use cheap and nasty connectors. Secondly, the average parts changers at dealerships take diagnostic messages at face value. They have neither the brain nor the time to investigate the problem - result perfectly good unit replaced at great cost to the customer, when what was really needed was to clean the connections. Finally, DIY maintenance is made difficult and/or expensive because use of a proprietary diagnostic system is unavoidable at times.

Post by **Peter.N.** » 29 Dec 2009, 21:16

That's one of the main reasons I will only run mid '90s cars, and the general decline in mechanical quality.

Post by **CitroJim** » 29 Dec 2009, 21:21

Old-Guy wrote:My objection to the use of electronics in vehicles is tthree-fold:- while the units (ECUs sensors etc) themselves are very reliable, but manufacturers will use cheap and nasty connectors. Secondly, the average parts changers at dealerships take diagnostic messages at face value. They have neither the brain nor the time to investigate the problem - result perfectly good unit replaced at great cost to the customer, when what was really needed was to clean the connections. Finally, DIY maintenance is made difficult and/or expensive because use of a proprietary diagnostic system is unavoidable at times.

Guy, agreed

I see where you are coming from here absolutely. I confess I never looked at it from that angle

Peter.N. wrote:..and the general decline in mechanical quality.

Yes, there is no doubt about that Peter

I looked at a friend's brand new Mondy the other day. It looks very erm, flimsy...

Bren · Post by **Bren** » 29 Dec 2009, 22:05

I hav'nt posted here for a while, simply because I don't have my Xantia anymore! My car was a very good example, 130k on the clock, full history (over £4.5k of bills) excellent bodywork - even the aircon worked!

So why did I sell? I had owned the car for three and a half years and it had wanted for nothing - i must have spent over £1k myself - cambelt water pump, spheres etc. However a change of job meant that I would be doing 200 miles a week, and I did'nt feel it was fair to expect a P reg car to do that mileage. The car had a couple of faults, synchro in 2nd gear was starting to go, the ABS light was always a worry at MOT time and one of the timing belt pulleys was getting noisy, so I made a decision to sell - I had no time to get any repairs done due to my job. I sold it to the specialist I took it to as he had just retired.

I bought something with a blue oval - a 2001 mondeo TDDi. It is bigger than citroen, much more powerful, and more economical. However, I miss the citroens' ride and the brakes as well as the seats!

Post by **admiral51** » 29 Dec 2009, 22:07

Hi Nigel
I may have misread some of this thread but i think you are saying that you have a n/s electric mirror and a o/s manual mirror

I have had a Xantia with manual mirrors (sorry Jim they do exist

) and the toggal for adjusting them is in the door card just where the button for adjusting the electric ones is

When i had my 1.9d n/a( that i managed to take swimming

) i had to change both mirrors(manual) and they were quite easy to replace once you get the door card/trim off its held in by a few torx screws.If you have a n/s electric mirror can you adjust it from the drivers seat ie with the switch ?? If so i reckon you have the incorrect mirror fitted on the drivers side
The correct manual mirror adjuster is just visible in the picture below,just below the interior door release.Although it is on the n/s door the location should be the same on the drivers side

If it is the case that you have an electrically adjustable n/s mirror with the adjusting button in the drivers door card i reckon someone in the past has swapped your o/s one for something from possably another model of car

Hope this helps and doesnt confuse the issue

Edit have a look at This ebay search as they show both electric/heated and manual mirrors

Colin

Post by **Peter.N.** » 29 Dec 2009, 23:03

Hi Bren

If your Xantia was diesel with good maintenance as you seem to have given it you could have at least doubled that mileage. The XM's I have at present have covered 250,000 miles, nearly 200,000 and the low mileage one 152,000, the last one I sold had done 292,000, my last CX diesel I sold at 262,000. I would far rather do a long journey, and regularly do, in one of my XMs than in a modern car which can break down for no apparant reason and have to be towed to a garage just to find out what's wrong. I have been able to repair any fault that my XMs have developed, which I must say recently have been very few, I couldn't attempt that with a new car and very few of them will be surviving the sort of mileage that the '90s cars will.

Having said that you do have one of the better modern engines in yours, so I should hang on to it if I were you.

Peter

Citroenmad · Post by **Citroenmad** » 30 Dec 2009, 00:06

Peter, is that as apposed to the TDCi in the Mondeo?

I looked at lots of mondeos recently as i wanted a large diesel hatchback. But the frequency of the TDCi going through injectors worried me, as did the cost to replace them. It would seem most people who got reconditioned ones only lasted 20K miles!

I was put off them for that reason, id always have a doubt in my mind about how reliable it would be. That and the fact every other one has rust doors.

There are not so good and better engined cars, modern diesels can be a nightmare if they go wrong. High pressure pumps, injectors and DMFs are the main cause. Modern cars are run by electronics, which is good at times as it can be plugged in to see whats wrong, but often it gives a bit of a vague code which still doesnt identify whats actually wrong. Then if any of that electrical gizmo stuff goes wrong, its very costly.

Yes if i think about it the HDis do worry me a bit, for the same reasons, injectors, but ive heard of far less HDis going through injectors than i have TDCis. Both suffer from DMF failures, rear suspenion arm problems etc.

I looked at so many cars and discounted most on the grounds of reliability, id have loved a laguna but the problems they can have doent even bear thinking about. So stuck ith a HDi and a C5 as they have been good cars for us. If im honest id rather be driving a nice Xm 2.1TD manual hatchabck, though finding a nice one with some toys like air con is impossible. I also looked at Xantia Exclusive Hdis but near impossible to find a good one. So i chose a newer car with a good safety record, masses of room (less than an Xm but more than a xantia) and had good safety kit. Sounds a bit boring really doesn it

I do prefer older cars for their reliability, some of the time i do wonder if i would have been better with a Xantia 1.9TD or Xm 2.1TD for my daily driver and have more money in the bank to pay for any repairs, rather than buying a C5. Ill have to see how it behaves but its been costing me so far. £170 today to replace some faulty electric gizmo

- comms 2000 unit. £185 for a pair of tyres (that would get 3-4 tyres for a xantia/xm), it needs a new battery which will be about £70. Service items £60 = £485 up till now, after 3 weeks of ownership. Still as i say, all used cars need something doing ... but it does all mount up. I could have nearly bought a working xantia for that much

Im always having second thoughts about everything though but im generally happy with the C5s. Ive never had to do anything with the 52reg C5, other than a pair of tyres, set of rear brake pads and 2 services which i did myself, probably £200 all in. Thats over the last 12K miles and 9 months. I just hope once i get this VTR one sorted it will be as reliable.

Post by **Peter.N.** » 30 Dec 2009, 11:30

Hi Citroenmad

No, the TDDI is a conventional engine but with a higher pressure pump, potentially more reliable than the TDCI, they only used them for the first year or so. The DMF's seem to fail at about 60k and as you say injectors are very expensive although getting cheaper, don't know if the TDDI has one, a DMF that is, I suspect not. Compare the durability of the TDCI with the 2.1XM and there's no contest, 200k + on the original clutch is not unusual.

Apart from the engines the mechanical durability of other parts of the car are called into question, there have been qite a number of cases on 'Honest John's' forum of coil springs breaking.

But its the electronic bits that really bug me, my cars never go to a garage for repair and I don't want to start sending them now. I have been an electronics engineer all my life but I'm afraid its all passed me by now.I couldn't live with a car that could just stop - like my computer does sometimes, and I can't logically fault find and repair.

The XM's if reasonably maintained are very reliable, I fitted a head gasket to the green one at 120k and I have had over 70k of trouble free motoring, until my wife wrote it off, I would just get in it and drive it, I would never even think about it breaking down.

The black hatch I bought for £250.00, I fitted a clutch thrust bearing and have covered over 10k in that without trauma. I would expect any 2.1 to last for at least 300k.

Peter

Citroenmad · Post by **Citroenmad** » 30 Dec 2009, 11:49

Yes the TDDi is the older engine isnt it, less economical and usually smokey when you follow them! Supposedly the 1.8TDCI is the worst ford diesel, but ive not had anything to do with them. Still, Ford now use PSA engines (1.6HDi and 2.0HDi 16v) are in the new mondeos and focuses. At least the TDCi is chain driven, one less thing to worry about.

If you hunt around on the honest john forums and the revelant owners forums of a car your interested in you can find more than enough info usually to put you off ever wanting to own that car. Couple that with what you have heard and any experiences people you know have had with those cars and its a wonder anyone buys a modern car

Ive always actually liked the look of the Mondeos, and was even more interested by the appraisals they got in roadtest about their ride and handling. Though doing searches and finding out just how often they go wrong and how badly they rust really put me off. I can not live with rusty cars, its one of my pet hates, id actually really like a Puma for a weekend car but you rarely see a rust free one. Shame.

The VAG 1.9TDi is possibly one of the most bomb proof modern diesel engine, though thats because its actually quite old in design. Though ive heard of more recent ones having problems since they started using some 2.0TDi parts on them. Seems very few modern diesels are problem free.

Maybe ill take on the 2.1 Xm, as it might have to find a new home in the new year. It should last me at least 12 years if your theory is right, as it only has 59K.