Should it stay or should it go?

falling-out-with-my-car · Post by **falling-out-with-my-car** » 27 Dec 2009, 11:36

Hi,
My 1998 Xantia 1.9 turbo diesel estate car is a bottomless pit and the pocket seems to be getting deeper all the time.

I have owned her six years I paid 1300 for her in the beginning and spent another £800 getting her roadworthy, corrosion between rear disks new discs front and back new brake pads all round ,cambelt, new spheres all the usual stuff to make sure it was in good order.

6 years on the outlay last year was £ 250 for suspension maintenance and this year will require another £600 at least to get her healthy again.

A rear radius arm is on its way out, she needs a cambelt, waterpump because its silly not to change it, serpentine belt etc ect ect.

Now I'm hanging on because the engine seems to be a gooden and she runs on veg to saving some money.

am I being selfish here or is the norm with xantias are we all destined to be spending money on our xantias forever?
I keep wondering what trouble another used car will bring I could well be in the same boat further down the line.

regards Nigel.

XantiaDaveEire · Post by **XantiaDaveEire** » 27 Dec 2009, 12:13

labour of love

as with any car over 10 years old ,i think we can expect to be throwing money hand over fist at it

im always finding something new that needs fixing

but as you said the engines a gooden so why get rid of her for the sake of a few hundred quid when its going to cost you more to buy a new car ..stick with her i say

Dave

lexi · Post by **lexi** » 27 Dec 2009, 12:13

Any car you run can cost you a grand a year whichever way you look at it.

If you have a two year old one it`s dropping that amount in depreciation per annum. Your car seems to have cost you around £400 a year. In which time you aint had to take 5 grand and spend on a "decent" one....which can still cost.
These are running costs. Just like house expenses....you don`t get them back.............especially ATM

I see Xantias a bit like Landrovers. Loved by enthuisiasts and can be very good . But they need lookin after and have many issues. The fun can be in fixing those issues. As it`s a Citroen forum I wont mention other more reliable cars..........but will say that my wife will drive nothing else ..which is good as I aint fixing her car as well as mine

Deanxm · Post by **Deanxm** » 27 Dec 2009, 12:18

Hi Nigel

Ive always allowed £1000 a year to run any car, if its new you will lose that in depreciation no trouble and if its secondhand you will have to allow that sort of money for Mot and maintanence.
If the gearbox popped and your not the sort of person that revels in the joy of tinkering then bin it and buy another but whatever you buy you are going to be spending money in that honeymoon period we all have with a new car where you correct its little foibles, service it etc etc.
If you get a bill for £500 you have to remember that may buy you another car, just, but with the honeymoon spending on top of that conservative price plus the unexpected it can be a big mistake..................better the devil you know and all that.
Even a newer car will give trouble, and usualy be more expensive and harder to fix! i think what myou discribe is not the norm for xantia's but the norm for any car that doesnt carry a warrantee.

D

Deanxm · Post by **Deanxm** » 27 Dec 2009, 12:19

lexi wrote:Any car you run can cost you a grand a year whichever way you look at it.

If you have a two year old one it`s dropping that amount in depreciation per annum. Your car seems to have cost you around £400 a year. In which time you aint had to take 5 grand and spend on a "decent" one....which can still cost.
These are running costs. Just like house expenses....you don`t get them back.............especially ATM

I see Xantias a bit like Landrovers. Loved by enthuisiasts and can be very good . But they need lookin after and have many issues. The fun can be in fixing those issues. As it`s a Citroen forum I wont mention other more reliable cars..........but will say that my wife will drive nothing else ..which is good as I aint fixing her car as well as mine

My god thats scary

D

lexi · Post by **lexi** » 27 Dec 2009, 12:30

My god thats scary

All those in favour of Telepathy raise my right hand

Citroenmad · Post by **Citroenmad** » 27 Dec 2009, 12:47

It doesnt really sound too much and nothing major like an engine replacement or gearbox.

Even if you sold it and bought another used car, there will be things which need doing, cambelts, tyres, brakes etc etc.

Better the devil you know .... and all that.

Id say £1000 is the very least a new car loses, most new cars depreciate far faster than that. I had thought £1000 is a lot to have in mind to spend on maintenence over a year, i was thiking i wouldnt spend that per car per year. Though adding things up, with tyres, road tax, servicing parts etc its probably heading towards that way.

Post by **CitroJim** » 27 Dec 2009, 12:59

Citroenmad wrote: Even if you sold it and bought another used car, there will be things which need doing, cambelts, tyres, brakes etc etc.

Absolutely and very precisely correct. Much better to spend a bit on the car you know.

Fact is, people don't sell cars because they are good. They sell because they know there is work needing doing. It may not be immediately obvious but it soon will be.

Sort out what you have Nigel. Nothing sounds terribly major to me. All straightforward jobs.

As said, all cars cost money to run and a Xantia is no different, except that it's well spent...

Get those jobs sorted and look forward to a good while of trouble-free running.

Featch · Post by **Featch** » 27 Dec 2009, 14:00

I've got rid of several cars because I convinced myself they were going to start costing, only to buy something that needed even more work and money. On reflection, I think I sold most cars because I was bored with them. I did make a good profit on the Saab 9000 though as I bought with a long list of faults that cost next to nothing to put right.

These days I keep cars until they really are beyond any reasonable repair.
All cars cost money to run but I've found that anything over 80,000 miles or so, with a full service history is usually far more reliable than lower mileage examples, as a lot of major work has been done. My XM came with £15,000 (Yes 15K..!!) receipts for work done in ten years but has needed only trivial expenditure from me since.
I've had 4 brand new cars and they've all been nightmares both financially and practically... never again!

Andy

Post by **Peter.N.** » 27 Dec 2009, 15:23

If you buy a new car or anything made after the late '90s, once the guarantee runs out it will likely cost you a fortune to repair, have a look on 'Honest Johns' forum it will frighten the life out of you. Without doubt the best cars were made in the mid '90s and they have gone steadily down hill since.

Peter

deian · Post by **deian** » 27 Dec 2009, 16:30

Fix it and keep it. I regret selling both my old Xantia, one an series2 exclusive 2.1td, and the other a series2 V6. What an idiot, why, because of silly jobs that I couldn't be bothered paying to get fixed, what happens then, i go out and buy another only to do it all over again!

Here's a nicer story, bought my wife a VW Golf mk3 1.6, £300, excellent body work, goes well, solid, good tyres, economical, reliable, until the cambelt snapped and bent ALL the valves, this was after wifey paid £120 for discs and pads for the front... so i thought, right, too good to scrap, what a waste, so i got my hands dirty and for the first time ever took a head, off, totally disassembled the head, put new valves in blah blah blah, so now it has new oils, new belt, new coolant, new brakes, new gaskets and so on, and a week after i got it working and back on the road it passed the MOT with flying colours!

The way I think of it, older cars can be better to own and run if you buy a good one that has been fixed and serviced, with cars that are now late 90's early 00'ies i bet it will be time to give them a new belt, warranty will be running out and when that happens the parts are designed to last until then and then break, it happens everywhere. At if an older car (mid 90's) is running well it will last given some tlc.

Sounds to me like you've done a lot already, get the rest done and you can drive happy knowing they've all been done recently and will last, how do you know these things won't go on the next car you buy after you get rid of this one?

Citroenmad · Post by **Citroenmad** » 27 Dec 2009, 16:58

Generally the first thing i do when buying another car is put it into a garage and get the cambelt kit and water pump changed, unless its no where near its due time or its got a good record of a cambelt change. I also always give them a full service including all filters, Forte oil flush and injector cleaner, always, even if its just been serviced.

Vws are horendous for cambelts, my previous Seat was recommended to have a cambelt every 40K or 4 years. I had it done when i got it and when i sold the car it was about due again because of mileage.

C5s are 100K or 10 years for the diesels, which is a lengthy time but mine will be done before then, around 80K should be the limit for me, so that will most likely be in around 10 months time, as its on 67K now.

Every car needs work, even if when you buy it you think it doesn't. For example, the 2.1TD Xm we bought a few months ago, looked very nice, came with a full service history etc. Though when i had a closer look at it when we got home it needed two new tyres, new front brake pads, LHM change, new gear knob etc etc. Along with the work i knew it needed, cambelt, it had never been done, so thats 14 years and 58K without a change. I didnt even drive it until that was changed. Suddenly that adds atleast £400-£500 onto the already decent purchase price. Though its all done now and its a fantastic car for it, all cars need some money spending when your first get them.

Every car needs something doing, since you know your xantia and know what you have done to it, id be keeping it. Unless you really fancy a change id stick with it and do the repairs.

Xantidote · Post by **Xantidote** » 27 Dec 2009, 17:41

Hi Nigel,

I'm a relative newby to the forum, but from other postings of yours, you obviously take care of your car, and this really starts to pay dividends in the longer term. I regard brake discs as consumables, though don't replace them unless necessary. Unfortunately, now and then, bigger items such as your rear radius arm, come up for replacement, and you just have to grin and bear it - everything wears out eventually, no matter how much lubrication & tlc you give it. Older cars have higher maintenance bills, but less depreciation

As everyone else has suggested, I'd stick with it. Mind, it's easy for those of us to say that when we do our own maintenance, as there's little labour cost, whereas you have to rely on Martin (Plaedies) do some of your work.

Good luck - Martin

Post by **Peter.N.** » 27 Dec 2009, 19:32

Nigel. None of the jobs you have listed are particularly difficult, if you had done them yourself you probably could have saved yourself 90% of the cost. At least with a car of your age it is possible to it yourself, with a newer car it isn't.

Peter

falling-out-with-my-car · Post by **falling-out-with-my-car** » 28 Dec 2009, 11:52

Right then,

Thanks everyone the car definately stays.

I can't say I havent been tempted by a later xantia but the Hdi bit puts me right off.

and as said above by many it will still need loadsa money spending in the honeymoon period.

I have also been thinking off finding something a little less computerized maybe a GSA instead. I am well impressed with the way they are built as my Dad and I have been stripping one down and rebuilding it, he bought it from Jonathan_dyanne earlier this year. another couple of months and she'll be back on the road (hopefully).

It seems to me that there is always something waiting to knock your confidence with a citroen, on the other hand I can't remember when I last had a used car that passed every MOT for five years in a row with very little maintenance in between except to say for tyres, filters and oil changes but that run of good years comes from spending quite a lot of money.

I'll give it the benefit of the doubt and spend the £650 and see what happens, suspension is tip-top now after its overhaul this year just the major maintenance on the engine to have done and one radius arm bearing.

Iv'e got to say I've been driving a fiesta over christmas because my height corrector snapped on Christmas eve. and yesterday I drove my Dads xantia VSX hatchback, and boy oh boy I've been missing my xantia really bad braked at the end of his driveway and nearly went through the windcreen...lol.

Thanks for the votes of confidence everyone I'll stick with her for a while longer yet.

just wish I could get a complete drivers door they seem to be very scarce indeed. it doesnt matter what colour as long as its off a MK2 xantia and complete including electrics and everything ie ready to spray, hang and plug in.

regards Happy New Year and thanx Nigel.