OK ALL YOU CITROEN EXPERTS OUT THERE HERE'S ONE FOR YOU........
1996 XANTIA 2.0 16 VALVE ESTATE... NON HYDROACTIVE...RECENTLY PASSED AN MOT ..NEW BOTTOM BALL JOINTS ON FRONT SUSPENSION...TRACKING CHECKED OK....NO PLAY FOUIND IN STEERING RACK OR COLUMN......PROBLEM....
THE CARS ALWAYS SEEMS TO WANDER AT SPEED AND IS DIFFICULT TO KEEP ON A STRAIGHT LINE WITHOUT CONSTANT CORRECTION.
ANYTHING OVER 55MPH AND IT FEELS "LOOSE" MY FIRST THOUGHT WAS THE REAR SWING ARM BEARINGS OR BUSHES BUT NO TELL TALE SIGNS OF UNEVEN TYRE WEAR AT THE BACK.
NOW, BEFORE I GO SPENDING A FORTUNE ON IT AND START REPLACING PARTS WILLY NILLY, IN AN EFFORT TO GET WHAT IS AN EXCELLENT CAR TO DRIVE CORRECTLY, CAN ANYONE SUGGEST SOME IDEAS FOR FURTHER INVESTIGATION AND SOME CHECKS THAT CAN BE MADE BY A REASONABLY COMPETENT DIY'ER ?
MANY THANKS FOLKS [:)]
WANDERINGS
Moderator: RichardW
-
tomsheppard
- Posts: 1801
- Joined: 19 Dec 2002, 14:46
- Location: United Kingdom
- My Cars:
-
franciscolunn
- Posts: 72
- Joined: 25 Apr 2003, 21:43
- Location: United Kingdom
- My Cars:
-
Dave Burns
- Posts: 1915
- Joined: 14 May 2001, 05:30
- Location: United Kingdom
- My Cars:
- x 2
My Xantia did exactly this a while back, nearside trackrod end (ball joint) developed play very soon after water ingress because of a perished rubber boot, same thing happened to a drop link and that wasn't very old.
How far back was the mot, things can go down hill pretty fast.
If you can't find anything wrong with the front end, take a look at the rear subframe mountings, believe it or not a testing station can and do miss these, because they invariably use the subframe for raising the rear off the ground, this keeps the rubbers heavily loaded so excessive movement of it is not seen.
You need to inspect it with the weight of the car off the subframe, which means having to support it by the rear jacking points on the sill, I don't like using them for supporting the car but there isn't choice in this case.
But do make sure and have a good look at all the moving parts of the front suspension.
Dave
How far back was the mot, things can go down hill pretty fast.
If you can't find anything wrong with the front end, take a look at the rear subframe mountings, believe it or not a testing station can and do miss these, because they invariably use the subframe for raising the rear off the ground, this keeps the rubbers heavily loaded so excessive movement of it is not seen.
You need to inspect it with the weight of the car off the subframe, which means having to support it by the rear jacking points on the sill, I don't like using them for supporting the car but there isn't choice in this case.
But do make sure and have a good look at all the moving parts of the front suspension.
Dave
-
xantiabreak96
- Posts: 12
- Joined: 16 Dec 2002, 04:14
- Location:
- My Cars:
[:)]THANKS FOR THE INPUT PEOPLE...THE TYRES ARE DIFFERENT MANUFACTURES ON THE REAR....WILL HAVE TO CHANGE THEM.... CHECKED TYRE PRESSURES ..OK THERE.
I REPLACED THE FRONT LOWER SWIVEL JOINTS ABOUT 5 MONTHS AGO JUST BEFORE THE M.O.T.
I THINK IT'S TIME TO CHECK THE REAR SUBFRAME MOUNTS AND HAVE ANOTHER LOOK AT THE REAR SWING ARM BEARINGS..CAN ANYONE TELL ME WHAT SIZE NUT THE SPINDLE SHAFT IS AND IF IT NEEDS TO BE A NORMAL OR DEEP SOCKET ?
I SEEM TO RECALL IT BEING 42MM ? CAN ANYONE CONFIRM THIS ?
ALSO CAN THE BEARINGS BE CHECKED FOR PLAY IN SITU OR WILL THE SWING ARM NEED TO BE REMOVED FROM THE VEHICLE ? I AM ASSUMING IT IS SIMILAR IN DESIGN TO THE OLD MINI SWING ARM, BUT WITH HYDRAULIC SUSPENSION.
ONE FINAL QUESTION ...ANDY'S SPARES LIST A REAR SWING ARM BUSH FOR THE XANTIA ESTATE NOT A BEARING..IS THE REPLACEMAENT PROCEEDURE THE SAME ?
THANKS AGAIN FOLKS YOUR COMMENTS HAVE BEEN MOST HELPFUL [:D]
I REPLACED THE FRONT LOWER SWIVEL JOINTS ABOUT 5 MONTHS AGO JUST BEFORE THE M.O.T.
I THINK IT'S TIME TO CHECK THE REAR SUBFRAME MOUNTS AND HAVE ANOTHER LOOK AT THE REAR SWING ARM BEARINGS..CAN ANYONE TELL ME WHAT SIZE NUT THE SPINDLE SHAFT IS AND IF IT NEEDS TO BE A NORMAL OR DEEP SOCKET ?
I SEEM TO RECALL IT BEING 42MM ? CAN ANYONE CONFIRM THIS ?
ALSO CAN THE BEARINGS BE CHECKED FOR PLAY IN SITU OR WILL THE SWING ARM NEED TO BE REMOVED FROM THE VEHICLE ? I AM ASSUMING IT IS SIMILAR IN DESIGN TO THE OLD MINI SWING ARM, BUT WITH HYDRAULIC SUSPENSION.
ONE FINAL QUESTION ...ANDY'S SPARES LIST A REAR SWING ARM BUSH FOR THE XANTIA ESTATE NOT A BEARING..IS THE REPLACEMAENT PROCEEDURE THE SAME ?
THANKS AGAIN FOLKS YOUR COMMENTS HAVE BEEN MOST HELPFUL [:D]
-
shaunthesheep
- Posts: 364
- Joined: 16 Jul 2002, 14:42
- Location: United Kingdom
- My Cars:
You certainly need to get a matched pair on the back - or at least try one out.
If that doesn't help and the tyre pressures are OK, etc, then I'd suggest trying Michelins on the back. Don't go buying any just yet - try and find a pair of wheels thus shod that you can borrow.
Contrary to views commonly expressed on this forum [:)], Michelins have (or at least had) much stiffer sidewalls than most - if not all - comparable tyres. I'm pretty certain that Citroën relied on this fact when designing the rear suspension geometry of some models. Allegedly, the MXV3 was designed explicitly for the Xantia.
On one of my BX 19 GTIs, I (once and only once) put some new non-Michelins on the back, then drove for a couple of hours down the motorway. The tyres were a reasonable brand (Pirellis, I think), but you wouldn't believe how bad it was - all the previously excellent straight line stability of the BX had gone and it felt like I was having to correct slight rear-end slides all the time. And this was when going in a dead straight line !
The solution - swapping the new ones with the old Michelins on the front - worked perfectly and I did this before making the return journey, too. There was nothing wrong with the Pirellis, they weren't out of balance or the wrong pressure or anything and they gave perfectly good service on the front (where of course I was able to wear them out pretty fast, anyway [:D]).
But I learnt my lesson - put non Michelins on the back of a Citroën at your peril. Incidentally, this advice also applies to Renaults - or at least older ones - my Dad has had loads of 'em (up to R21) and had concluded exactly the same thing.
However, my Laguna doesn't seem to be too fussy, so maybe the more modern cars don't quite place the same demands on their tyres in this respect.
Jim.
If that doesn't help and the tyre pressures are OK, etc, then I'd suggest trying Michelins on the back. Don't go buying any just yet - try and find a pair of wheels thus shod that you can borrow.
Contrary to views commonly expressed on this forum [:)], Michelins have (or at least had) much stiffer sidewalls than most - if not all - comparable tyres. I'm pretty certain that Citroën relied on this fact when designing the rear suspension geometry of some models. Allegedly, the MXV3 was designed explicitly for the Xantia.
On one of my BX 19 GTIs, I (once and only once) put some new non-Michelins on the back, then drove for a couple of hours down the motorway. The tyres were a reasonable brand (Pirellis, I think), but you wouldn't believe how bad it was - all the previously excellent straight line stability of the BX had gone and it felt like I was having to correct slight rear-end slides all the time. And this was when going in a dead straight line !
The solution - swapping the new ones with the old Michelins on the front - worked perfectly and I did this before making the return journey, too. There was nothing wrong with the Pirellis, they weren't out of balance or the wrong pressure or anything and they gave perfectly good service on the front (where of course I was able to wear them out pretty fast, anyway [:D]).
But I learnt my lesson - put non Michelins on the back of a Citroën at your peril. Incidentally, this advice also applies to Renaults - or at least older ones - my Dad has had loads of 'em (up to R21) and had concluded exactly the same thing.
However, my Laguna doesn't seem to be too fussy, so maybe the more modern cars don't quite place the same demands on their tyres in this respect.
Jim.
I had to put a pair of emergency new michelins (165-70s) onto the back of a BX just prior to a 2000-mile round trip to France, after discovering the slightly wider wheels and new non-michelin tyres (175-70s) I'd just fitted were compromised by the rear arm job I'd been meaning to do before the trip, and hadn't. The wheels were leaning enough to make the 175s foul the inner wheelarch on the worst-affected side.
Over many motorway miles in that 2000-mile trip (sometimes windy and rainy, often the trigger for directional instability) I had far less wander than I had the right to expect. Needless to say, the rear arm bearings were replaced as soon as possible afterwards before they had the chance to put serious asymmetric wear on the michelins. I couldn't afford to replace the non-michelins with a complete set (don't ask about the pin-hole in the exhaust downpipe and the octopus that went in France), and since then wet-weather grip and tendency to lockup has been a constant reminder to me that I ought to change them before long.
David
Over many motorway miles in that 2000-mile trip (sometimes windy and rainy, often the trigger for directional instability) I had far less wander than I had the right to expect. Needless to say, the rear arm bearings were replaced as soon as possible afterwards before they had the chance to put serious asymmetric wear on the michelins. I couldn't afford to replace the non-michelins with a complete set (don't ask about the pin-hole in the exhaust downpipe and the octopus that went in France), and since then wet-weather grip and tendency to lockup has been a constant reminder to me that I ought to change them before long.
David
