Head Gasket Xsara

bhupindra · Post by **bhupindra** » 25 Nov 2009, 20:11

Hi,

Had my head gasket replaced on Xsara 2000 1.4 a few months a go. Its gone again, although I have got the garage to check the head and they stated no warps, cracks. I have replaced fan sensor, water pump looks fine, radiator cap, thermostat. It over heated for no reason I could work out and suddenly the heating in the car went cold, and then it went back to normal. Its not had the general symptoms of water in the oil etc.

Apart from the car being old, it only over heated once and the gasket went by the looks of things. Whats the chances of it going again, is it time to sell it do you think? And what coud of caused it first time round?

Chlorate · Post by **Chlorate** » 25 Nov 2009, 21:19

Hi there.
I've had a lot of fun with a head gasket recently, although it hasn't gone bang again just yet.

I'd say that it'd almost certainly go again if you haven't found out what caused it to overheat in the first place.
How good were you with changing your antifreeze? It could be that your radiator/cooling system has become clogged solid with sludge which would lead to overheating.

Some more less likely possibilities are:
-When it went the first time, the mechanics didn't notice that it was warped/cracked and put it back regardless. Did you have the head skimmed and pressure tested last time?
-When the mechanics put it back, they didn't torque it up correctly.

Another thing could be that when the coolant was refilled, it wasn't bled properly leaving air locks in the system, PSA engines are a bastard for this.

miked · Post by **miked** » 25 Nov 2009, 21:33

Hi bhupindra and welcome.

I'm no expert but if this is a petrol 1360 lump then I do have a bit of knowledge with the engine overheating from my experience with an AX GT.

In my case I changed the head gasket after I seriously overheated it (didn't help, replacement leaked) and then I repeated the process but also got the head skimmed and after that it was fine. Unlike you I did have the classic gasket blown symptoms (white scum in the oil filler cap, compression test down on a couple of cylinders etc.)

I'm sure one of the resident experts will be along soon but until then are you absolutely sure you have worked out all the air from the cooling system? My AX was hard work to bleed even after I worked out how to do it and found all the bleed valves.

Did you change the water pump and thermostat or were they just inspected?
Does your xsara have a temperature gauge and was it OK until it suddenly went high then did it go straight back to normal?

EDIT: Chlorate, I must learn to type faster.

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 25 Nov 2009, 23:35

hi and welcome

if the engine seriously over heated the first time round, you might find your wet linners have droped/sunk, in which case the easyest opption will be stick another engine in, as it is hit and miss to fit new linner seals,

also was the head skimed on the firsty attempt, as you should realy get it skimed,

also i find all PSA cars very easy to bleed the cooling system without any complicated extra header tank, like some people on hear sudgest

were abouts are you

regards malcolm

Post by **Paul-R** » 26 Nov 2009, 10:21

I don't know this engine (I'm a diesel man!) but if it uses head bolts then after skimming the head it's a good idea to clean down into the threads in the block because the bolts will be pulling down just abit further. If there's any crud down ther it can give a false impression of tightness.

Also, are new bolts recommended with a head gasket change? some can stretch and be unuseable after the first time.

bhupindra · Post by **bhupindra** » 26 Nov 2009, 21:20

Hi thanks for your replies,

Yes the car overheated then went back to normal and the heater in the car kept constantly going cold, it only went into the red once. The first time round it wasn't skimmed either. The mechanic said he didn't think the person put it on correctly the head gasket, I ws quite surprised he didn't skim it though and when questioning the mechanic he said it didn't need it, which surprised me as its the 2 head gasket in under 8k. But he also told me that he changed the old and filter which is what you expect to be done after a HGK change. I know for a fact he didn't as the oil is still pretty dirty and it was the same when I took it in.

I now seem to hear a "whinning or whirring noise" kind of a whishing sound in the back ground with all the ticking of the car as its warm or cold coming from the pump region. May be I'm being paranoid here but it sounds like the water pump, the garage told me they checked the water pump and they took it out and it seems fine. I don't think they did as its quite a difficult one to change the water pump on Xsara, its on the timing belt not the fan belt like some of the cars I have had previously.

I guess that whirring whinning noise could of been the cause of this head gasket going although there is no antifreeze on the floor, will double check in the light though. But its not over heating at all, the temp goes up when I'm doing 70 but only to the middle line. Just a bit concerned with this whirring noise...... :-/

I replaced the fan sensor and thermostat and radiator cap, and one of the heater hoses broke as I was flusing out the system and bleeding. I went to the scrappy pulled one out of a older car diesel and did a bodge job with the old hose and a bit of copper pipe and jubilee clips. I have ordered the part but citroen tells me it will take 4 weeks to get the part in???? :-/

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 26 Nov 2009, 21:46

which piper will take 4 weeks, that sounds strange, give me the chassis No, and i will check for you,

these engines are a bit fussy regarding the head to block jointting surface as they are wet linners,

sounds to me like the mechanic is out to make a quike buck at your expense,

were abouts are you

regards malcolm

bhupindra · Post by **bhupindra** » 27 Nov 2009, 20:08

Hi Citronut,

The hose that has gone is from the engine to the engine bay heater matrix connections. Its the plastic bit that feeds the heater matrix with a bleed nipple on it, looks like two fingers with a metal bracket inbetween. chassis is VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff], its a 1360cc xsara lx. Citroen said the earliest they could get the part was the 4th December, so I went to scrappy pulled the hose from a deisel and blocked them together with the old one with copper pipes and jubilee clips. Seems to work for now. I'm based midlands, coventry

I'm taking it back to the garage as it seems to be drinking coolant, he said over the phone might be something silly bring it in we will have a look. I can't see coolant anywhere it seems to be disappearing its not overheating now although i had the gasket done, theres no water anywhere I can't find the leak and whirring sound to me is prob the water pump

Chlorate · Post by **Chlorate** » 27 Nov 2009, 20:40

From the sounds of things, I wouldn't be taking the car back to the same mechanic

If you can't find where your coolant is leaking, it could be disappearing through the exhaust. Which, unfortunately, can be a symptom of head gasket failure or a warped head.

bhupindra · Post by **bhupindra** » 27 Nov 2009, 20:44

i hate to say your probably right, but at a guess I think you are, the only other place the water could be going is through the overflow due to boiling as its not circulating as well as it should.... the muppet should of skimmed it, well the head gaskets gauranteed now so I aint paying didly squat, he can deal with it!!

Chlorate · Post by **Chlorate** » 27 Nov 2009, 20:47

It could also be going through the overflow if your coolant system is being pressurised by exhaust, which again is a head gasket thing...
Can you take the rad cap off when the car is running without it erupting at you?
Mine went like that, that lead to some entertaining moments on the hard shoulder

Edit:
And you should take that mechanic to the cleaners if it does turn out to be an hg failure again.

addo · Post by **addo** » 27 Nov 2009, 22:40

There's a point where getting hung up on principles won't fix the car. If a mechanic can't get it right twice - he's clearly not going to be able to sort it a third time. Time to use someone with a proven track record in sorting difficult jobs, and inform the first mechanic you'll be pinging him for reimbursement on the work he did.

If he can't pay, take the drawer from his main roller chest with the sockets in it. It'll have a decent equivalent worth, and stop him ruining anyone else's car for a while.

Kowalski · Post by **Kowalski** » 27 Nov 2009, 23:22

If you've only got a slight leak it might be difficult to spot. I think it might be the wrong time of year to suggest this method: park the car on dry concrete for a few hours and see if you get a wet patch or wet spot underneath the car on the concrete. If you do, you could have a leak, if the concrete stays dry after a few hours, a leak (even a very slight one) is unlikely. Another tip, never buy a car from a car dealer if its the only one on the lot with a wet patch underneath it

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 28 Nov 2009, 14:51

if this is a petrol engine they dont usualy presureise the rad, have you checked the oil level as the coolant could be going into the sump,

and the whirring sound could be the cam belt is far to tight,

regards malcolm

bhupindra · Post by **bhupindra** » 29 Nov 2009, 18:12

thnks citronut, your right it was the cam belt on too tight, whirring don't fancy paying for a few valves etc. I found the leak, the head gasket is fine now.The leak was in the bottom hose that goes to the rad it wasn'teven leaking that much but for some reason when running I was losing the whole fluid....seems fine now, alhough the orange engine warning light has come onabout twice then gone of when revved. Any one know what that means, I guess the water getting into a cylinder means spark plugs need replacing? or would it be something more intense? (lol don't say it will or I'll have no money left for crimbo presents!!)