Citroen Xantia 1.9 TD, year 96, Intermittent Stop light.

Napoleon · Post by **Napoleon** » 13 Mar 2010, 19:43

oh, the ride can be stiff as a plank when first driving away, but softens quickly and is a good ride.

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 13 Mar 2010, 20:38

Sounds like the corner spheres are ok then, with the engine running, listen for a loud click/tick from the regulator (where the 12mm bolt is).
The time between ticks should be at least 30 seconds, a new accumulator sphere should give ticks of over a minute.
The accumulator sphere holds pressure, absorbs pressure spikes which could damage the pump, and gives you brakes in the event of an engine failure (although with the handbrake on the front wheels you've got that as a backup).
At the back in the middle, up behind the spare wheel cradle is the rear accumulator, know as the anti-sink sphere as it was fitted to cars with anti-sink.
The accumulator and anti-sink often get missed as they don't affect the car's ride.

Spheres basically contain a balloon of nitrogen, over the years nitrogen escapes through the balloon's membrane into the LHM where it works it's way out of the system (helped by citrobics).
The sphere becomes less able to resist the LHM flowing into it as the balloon gets smaller, on the corners this gives a harder ride.
When the nitrogen drops below a certain level, it doesn't have the strength to push the LHM out of the sphere when you set the suspension on low and depressurise. When you remove the sphere in that state you're likely to get a douche vert as once off the balloon can expand pushing the LHM out through the hole in the bottom of the sphere some considerable distance! Don't worry, LHM makes great hair conditioner.
If the spheres aren't changed, eventually the membrane splits and the sphere fills with LHM, which reduces the amount of LHM in the resevoir.

Chances are your anti-sink sphere needs changing, and depending on the tick time the accumulator as well.

Your height correctors probably need a good lube too.

Napoleon · Post by **Napoleon** » 14 Mar 2010, 08:27

I set the suspension on high this morning, went up and down a few times as prescribed, and topped up the LHM to within the said limits. All fine.

Now, these 'clicks'... do they stop after a while? Are they audible form inside the car? I can certainly hear some clicking going on - it's fairly rapid and first, then decreases in regularity to about every five seconds, then nothing at all as the car has assumed its position.

Where do I find the 'regulator'?

Post by **CitroJim** » 14 Mar 2010, 08:34

Hi Tim,

Regulator ticks are a continual process for as long as the engine is running and will be heard from the pressure regulator which is located on the front of the gearbox bellhousing. Look for a sphere on it's side attached to the gearbox (this is the main accumulator) and the block it screws into is the pressure regulator...

Only on a V6 and an Activa have I heard regulator ticks from inside the cabin.

Regulator ticks should occur at intervals greater than thirty seconds.

Napoleon · Post by **Napoleon** » 14 Mar 2010, 10:21

ok, I think I have a grip on this.

I located the accumulator sphere on the gearbox.

The ticks are spaced apart 13-15 seconds I reckon.

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 14 Mar 2010, 10:53

time for a new accumulator sphere then, and best to replace the anti sink one too.
they're just over £20 each from gsf.
you'll also need to buy or make a sphere removal tool (instructions to make one are in the hints & tips section)
the antisink needs a 9mm flare spanner to remove the hydraulic pipe from it.

Napoleon · Post by **Napoleon** » 14 Mar 2010, 11:04

Are these spheres identical?

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 14 Mar 2010, 11:42

No the anti sink is different to the accumulator in that it has a threaded hole where the hydraulic pipe screws into the sphere.
The accumulator just has a hole as, like corner spheres, it screws into a socket which holds the hydraulic pipe.
Corner spheres have dampners in them.
They're also of different volumes and pressures.

Napoleon · Post by **Napoleon** » 14 Mar 2010, 11:51

Is this a job best left to a stealer, then? Sounds like I might make a mistake in getting the correct ones.

Post by **CitroJim** » 14 Mar 2010, 12:18

Napoleon wrote:Is this a job best left to a stealer, then?

No, absolutely not Tim

Arm yourself with these notes and away you go...

We'll advise on what spheres you should get if you are not sure

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 14 Mar 2010, 12:32

Napoleon wrote:Is this a job best left to a stealer, then? Sounds like I might make a mistake in getting the correct ones.

Not at all, it's dead easy. Just remember to never work under the car unless it's supported on axle stands as they could sink down and squish you.
First either buy a pleidies tool or make your own sphere removal tool (if you've got a metal hack saw and a drill, oh and a handy lamppost nearby, then make your own). The pleidies tool is great for removing really tough spheres like on an Activa or VSX.
A 9mm flare spanner is like a 6 faced ring spanner with a slit in it so it can go over a pipe.
GSF describe the spheres very well on their website. You'll also need a new pipe seal for the anti-sink, I can't remember if it's 3.5mm or 4.5mm so I'll give the codes for both.
Accumulator 453PC0011
Anti-sink 453PC0030
3.5 mm 453PC0480
4.5 mm 453PC0470

So, accumulator first.
Set the car on high, get axle stands under the front jacking points.
Set the car on low and let it settle down, the back will drop, raising the front giving you room to work safely underneath.
Turn the engine off and open the 12mm bolt on the regulator by the accumulator sphere 1/2 a turn to depressurise the system. Pinch the bolt back up.
Tighten the sphere removal tool (SRT) onto the accumulator sphere and turn it anti-clockwise to unscrew it. Once it's started moving you should be able to screw it off by hand. Be prepared for LHM to leak out so have rags/kitchen roll handy.
New spheres come with a rubber o-ring to go over the threaded end, smear clean lhm on the o-ring and fit it into the socket, then screw the new sphere into place finger tight. This way you won't risk pinching the o-ring.
Start the engine and put the car on high again, move the axle stands to the rear jacking points, set it on low (which raises the rear), stop the engine and depressurise with the 12mm bolt again.
Fit the 9mm flare spanner onto the pipe nut behind the anti sink sphere, turn it a little bit to get things going, then leave the spanner hanging on the nut.
Use the SRT to free the anti-sink sphere and then hand spin it off. The bracket the sphere fits into should hold the spanner in place, meaning you're also spinning the sphere off the pipe nut, dead easy

The old pipe seal is probably inside the old seal, fit a new on on the end of the pipe.
Now, the anti-sink come with an o-ring but it's not actually needed as the hydraulic pipe goes straight into it, however it's good to use it anyway as it prevents the sphere rusting to the bracket, so pop it on the threaded end of the sphere and screw the sphere in just enough to hold the sphere in place. Then screw in the pipe nut one or two turns.
With the spanner still on the pipe nut, screw the sphere home, and again it will also screw itself onto the pipe nut.
Once the sphere is home, nip up the pipe nut.
Set the car on high, remove the axle stands, perform citrobics, checking the LHM level when the car has settled on high.
Job done.
Have a cup of tea and smile knowing how much you saved doing this easy job yourself rather than going to a dealer

Napoleon · Post by **Napoleon** » 14 Mar 2010, 17:17

Thanks Xac, and CJ for the link - I wanted to ask, CJ, if those notes were up to date, given that in the thread there is some debate about the size of this nut, or that flange etc.

Seems like Xac's last message here gives the most up to date info that I need.

FWIW, we went on a little drive this afternoon, and I noticed some oil spillage in the n/s wheel arch - it can't be a coincidence that I refilled the LHM yesterday - but did I overfill it? I don't think so, as the orange disc is between the two red markers on the clear plastic indicator 'thing' on the LHM reservoir.

Could this spillage indicate that there is a leak in the left hand sphere or somewhere like that? It appears as if the oil has got on the tyre and shot off all around the inside of the arch.

One other question that arose from that thread you linked to, CJ, was the recommended use of a trolley jack to get the rear of the car up onto stands - I possess no such thing. Is reversing onto ramps so tricky?

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 14 Mar 2010, 18:01

Ramps all depend on how well you can secure them to stop them flying out from under the car as you drive up them.

Napoleon · Post by **Napoleon** » 14 Mar 2010, 19:38

Copy that. I suppose a couple of 6" nails driven into the tarmac behind each ramp might help.

I don't really have any other solution to that.

Post by **CitroJim** » 14 Mar 2010, 20:17

Napoleon wrote: Could this spillage indicate that there is a leak in the left hand sphere or somewhere like that? It appears as if the oil has got on the tyre and shot off all around the inside of the arch.

This might be a perished strut leakage return pipe Tim. The pipe has a rubber "foot" which clips to the strut about half-way up. The point where the rubber pipe joins the "foot" often perishes and leaks, giving exactly the symptoms you describe.

GSF stock replacements and they're not hard to replace.

Ramps are not essential Tim. I do not possess a set. You can do all with axle stands and a small trolley jack. On the subject of jacks, it's worth getting one and getting a decent one. I have a low-rise one that will go under a Xantia even when the suspension is on full low. Many lesser jacks will fail this test.

Motoring up or off ramps is always fraught with danger. Best to have a big jack and jack the car up high enough to slip the ramps under the tyres without having to drive the car anywhere.