C5-Tyre(s) Deflated warning

Post by **Paul-R** » 13 May 2010, 15:39

All the information I've garnered about TPMS has been from trawling the Internet and, latterly, here. I've got a few documents and photos on a pen drive but there's no facility to upload here so I'll have to search for them again and post links.

The Protoctair Mini (which is what is used by Citroen dealers) only emits an unmodualted signal according to this leaflet http://www.one-too.com/English/Fiches/P ... r_mini.pdf I don't know which vehicles need a modulated signal.

Wheeler has given you the signal periodicity, which ties in with your (and my) experience of error reporting.

I too have wondered about rotating wheels to generate a signal. Indeed Renault cars do exactly this. http://www.autodiagnos.com/fileadmin/as ... t_tyre.pdf It would seem that simply deflating the tyre works as well.

TPMS valves are available much cheaper than the dealers sell them from suppliers such as http://www.tyre-equipment.co.uk/acatalo ... alves.html you should be able to see if there are varaints available for the differenmt years.

Post by **Paul-R** » 13 May 2010, 15:50

I also have a photograph of some naked Protoctair Minis on my pen drive. I've done a search for this photo and the closest I can find is a photo of a box of them here

http://www.symes.fr/projets.html

It's to the right of the line which says

PROTOCTAIR
Etude et production de 1000 cartes de "forçage" de valves électroniques

Unfortunately, clicking on this takes you to another page so you'll have to copy and paste it elsewhere to have a really good look at it. It's a much lower resolution picture than I have and it doesn't really show a lot unfortunately.

Post by **Paul-R** » 13 May 2010, 15:51

This is the photo in better detail http://www.symes.fr/projets/prodprotoc1.jpg

dieselnutjob · Post by **dieselnutjob** » 13 May 2010, 16:09

Paul-R wrote:TPMS valves are available much cheaper than the dealers sell them from suppliers such as http://www.tyre-equipment.co.uk/acatalo ... alves.html you should be able to see if there are varaints available for the differenmt years.

Mine appear to be 60311-67.
That really is a fantastic price. Thanks!
I will have another go with a flat tyre this time.
I might try putting the car in gear so that the wheel spins faster as well.

dieselnutjob · Post by **dieselnutjob** » 14 May 2010, 09:57

another question....

I discovered that air is leaking past the sensor on three of my rims.
So I have ordered three new sensors. The fourth one is already new because that one was missing when I bought the car.
I've bought new sensors because
1. The sensors have a ten year life and the car is 9 1/2 years old.
2. When I tried to remove one it destroyed the sensor. Basically if the nut is in any way seized onto the sensor it's very difficult to hold the sensor still whilst torque is applied to the nut.
3. The tyre fitter guy will charge me less labour if I supply new sensors because it's less messing about.

According to Tyre Equipment Co the sensor seal is supposed to be fitted to the rim dry. What do people here think? surely a small amount of sealant would stop road dirt / acid wheel cleaner / salt etc from getting down past the hole in the rim and attacking that seal?

If so what would be the best thing to use?

Post by **Paul-R** » 14 May 2010, 10:45

I can appreciate your logic for buying new ones although it must go against the grain to replace ones that are still working! Preventative maintenance though...

I agree that a totally dry rim is not the best surface. I would put just a touch of spit on, probably! It might be better to use a very small amoumt of the the tyre lubricant they use when fitting new tyres. I wouldn't use washing-up liquid as some of these (most?) have salt added.

dieselnutjob · Post by **dieselnutjob** » 14 May 2010, 11:08

I don't really have any choice. It's an alloy nut holding the steel shaft of the sensor/valve in place. After 9 1/2 years of road salt etc corroding the alloy to the steel the chance of getting the sensor out intact is pretty low.

If any do come out in one piece I'll keep them as spares, as I have two sets of rims anyway. I've got 17" rims with summer tyres and 16" with winter tyres.

dieselnutjob · Post by **dieselnutjob** » 18 May 2010, 20:15

had a chance to play a bit today
I tried gear M3 at idle (it's a diesel auto) with 9psi in the tyre
the BSI wouldn't learn it
I did get a bunch of ABS faults though.
I had the Front Left wheel jacked up and spinning at 53kph ( according to the ABS ECU ) and it actually gave me coherency failures for the other three wheels, which kind of shows that you can't necessarily trust an error code

it looks like you really do have to have the 125khz tool.

The tyre place that swapped one of the sensors for me has a span-on tool with which he said he can manually program in the sensors by typing in the serial number off the sensors. Only problem is that to do it from scratch he has to remove all four tyres to see the sensors. It struck me as odd that a snap on tool has this feature but not the offical Peugeot tool.

The 125khz activators are down to $100US on ebay.com.

wheeler · Post by **wheeler** » 19 May 2010, 09:28

dieselnutjob wrote:I did get a bunch of ABS faults though.
I had the Front Left wheel jacked up and spinning at 53kph ( according to the ABS ECU ) and it actually gave me coherency failures for the other three wheels, which kind of shows that you can't necessarily trust an error code

Why cant you trust the error code ? If one wheel is spinning at 53kph & the other 3 are spinning at 0kph I would say that the other 3 wheels are incoherant with the front left wheel. I would definitely expect to see these faults if wheels were turning at massivley different speeds.

Post by **Paul-R** » 19 May 2010, 09:57

dieselnutjob wrote: I tried gear M3 at idle (it's a diesel auto) with 9psi in the tyre.

If you didn't then pump the tyre back up again then surely it would continue squarking that it's down on pressure? This might have confused things, perhaps.

dieselnutjob wrote:it looks like you really do have to have the 125khz tool.

I think I agree!

dieselnutjob wrote:The 125khz activators are down to $100US on ebay.com.

Dunno what the carriage cost would be but that's quite a bit cheaper than the £140 odd I've been quoted. I couldn't find one on Ebay though - what search parameters did you use?

dieselnutjob · Post by **dieselnutjob** » 19 May 2010, 13:27

I searched for "tpms tool"
there is Ford and Nissan specific stuff on there for $30. I am wondering if these are just a 125kHz signal generator which might be what we need.
Also I'm in email conversation with the makers of this tool
http://www.tpms.tw/product_TPMS_Tool_E.htm
they are saying that it is only meant for Ford/Mazda but again maybe it will actually work for us.

Post by **Paul-R** » 19 May 2010, 15:04

Had a look at your link and also on Ebay. These are my thoughts - others may disagree!

The tool on the link will certainly do the job but it's overkill as it also does a load of other stuff for other cars that doesn't interest us. It's a shame they don't do a 'lite' version.

Searching Ebay.com brought up a few interesting leads.

Firstly http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TIRE-PRE ... veQ5fTools is no good as it doesn't emit RF. This gives a clue that Nissan, Ford and Chrysler vehicles use the same system on at least some of their cars.

Following on from that http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SCHRADER ... veQ5fTools and http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Tire-Pre ... veQ5fTools are no good.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-FORD ... ccessories is interesting as it the picture clearly shows the letters FCC, which stand for the Federal Communication Commission. They control all aspects of Radio transmission in the USA so this gives a useful clue that it may do the hob. I'm going to contact them to find out.

Finally, I found http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/AVE-TPMS ... ccessories which may also do the job as it is FCC compliant. I'll wait until I get a reply from the other seller before contacting them given that it's 2-1/2 times the price!

Post by **Paul-R** » 19 May 2010, 17:54

Paul-R wrote:http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-FORD ... ccessories is interesting as it the picture clearly shows the letters FCC, which stand for the Federal Communication Commission. They control all aspects of Radio transmission in the USA so this gives a useful clue that it may do the hob. I'm going to contact them to find out.

Useless - received the reply "i do not know".

Have to contact the next one now.

dieselnutjob · Post by **dieselnutjob** » 19 May 2010, 19:28

An S.1244B on ebay:-

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0360179539

Looking at this I think you are probably right. An unmodulated birst of 125kHz RF will do it.

Post by **Paul-R** » 19 May 2010, 22:17

The Planete 2000 screenshot looks the same as the one I've seen on the Lexia.

The kit seems to be overkill again. I don't know what the infra-red part might do unless it's for early key plips. The other bits of kit seem to be able to receive the signal that the valves send out to confirm that they work. Again, not erally necessary for our purposes.

The search goes on...