What not to do to a diesel

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steelcityuk
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Post by steelcityuk »

Good to hear there's no serious damage.

When dealing with timing belts and such I always remove the glowplugs/sparkplugs and turn over the engine by hand just to be sure I haven't messed up and got the timing 180 degrees out. For some reason I'm very cautious of engine timing.

Steve.
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Post by f00lzz »

Oh well, a good story down the pub.. and you can finish the story with the best line... It was the wife's fault!
Ian
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Post by Chlorate »

Crikey :shock:
Mark up the belt and the sprockets with tippex next time maybe?
Citroen Xantia Exclusive HDi

previously:
Citroen ZX Volcane - RIP
Peugeot 106 XN... stolen and destroyed by Kent Police :evil:
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Post by colinxm »

Hi gents, thanks for all your comments.

The locking bolts were fitted to the pump gearwheel so's I could remove the diesel pump without having to disturb the timing belt, it was only stupidity that caused the problem - Mrs.P just happened to be walking past so I took the opportunity to get her to spin the motor so's to bleed the pump, injectors etc... I completely overlooked that I'd still got the pins in place as she'd only got a minute to spare (story of my life) and needed to rush off elsewhere.

The engine turns over fine now but won't start... no diesel getting to the injectors so I must have cocked something up when rebuilding the pump :cry: It's gotta come off again so watch this space ;)

Cheers Colin.P
1995 Cit XM 2,1 TD Silver Estate
2004 Pug 307 SW
1989 Pug 205 Cabriolet
1998 Ford Puma
1979 Triumph TR7
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Post by colinxm »

Okay, after walking away from the xm for a couple of weeks to sulk and take a tea break in the sun I've finally plucked up the courage to pull the pump off the car and rip it apart one more time. After another rebuild and marathon bleeding session the engine now starts - hooray ! :D it ticks over quite nicely too so I can't be too far out with the pump settings except for... the accelerator does absolutely nothing, not a tap, zilch :( probably just got to reposition the throttle spindle 90 degrees or summat (crosses fingers).

The only other problem is that I've upset something down by the thermostat housing, coolant is now trickling out at quite an alarming rate.

Ah well, everyone should have a hobby I suppose :lol:

Colin.P
1995 Cit XM 2,1 TD Silver Estate
2004 Pug 307 SW
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1998 Ford Puma
1979 Triumph TR7
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Post by colinxm »

Hi all, After spending half the day outside the xm is now water tight :D That's the good news... the bad news is that the engine still won't run right :cry: It turns out that the throttle arm was fitted correctly onto it's spindle, if I pump on the 'bleeder knob' while the engine is running until there is some real resistance felt the accelerator does indeed rev the engine but it struggles to do this, the revs don't go as high as they should and the engine seems to be hunting, the revs die back by themselves, although holding the throttle wide does keep the engine spinning faster but it is still hunting. screwing in the fuel screw increases the tickover but it still doesn't like to rev up and it produces loads of blue smoke, screwing it out makes the engine want to stall at tickover. With the screw quite a long way in the engine revs rise by themselves quite alot if i pump on the bleeding knob and then gradually die back down again - it seems as if the pump is losing internal pressure somehow, the pressure in the fuel line soon drops right off and I need to pump like fury to get the bleeding knob hard again (oo er missus :shock: ).

Sorry for the ramble but I just had to write it down as it occured to me...

Any ideas anyone ? the car starts fine from cold and will tickover happily for as long as I'll let it.

Cheers Colin.P
1995 Cit XM 2,1 TD Silver Estate
2004 Pug 307 SW
1989 Pug 205 Cabriolet
1998 Ford Puma
1979 Triumph TR7
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Post by CitroJim »

Hi Colin,

Check you have the two fuel banjos the right way round. If the return banjo is on the supply side, you'll get terrible fuel starvation as it only has a very tiny hole in it as this banjo is purposely restricted to control pump transfer pressure. Apart from that, the two banjos look identical. The supply side banjo should have a big hole.

Otherwise it's all down to fuel starvation. Check too that the return line back to the tank is not blocked as this can cause some funnies, as can an air ingress in the supply side.
Jim

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Post by MikeT »

colinxm wrote:It turns out that the throttle arm was fitted correctly onto it's spindle
Hi Colin, are you 100% certain as the symptoms you describe match it being put back out of position. Have you tried moving the lever one notch clockwise?

Be prepared to counter runaway on restarting when playing with any pump settings.
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Post by colinxm »

Thanks for the tip Jim, I'll have a look tomorrow but I'm sure I got it the right way round.

Mike, I'll also give this a go should the banjo's prove to be fitted correctly. I've also just found your posting about stripping the VE pumps - great stuff ! Wish I'd have found it sooner.

Cheers Colin.P
1995 Cit XM 2,1 TD Silver Estate
2004 Pug 307 SW
1989 Pug 205 Cabriolet
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Post by G4EIY »

Quick check:-

The top of the banjo bolt on the return is normally stamped "OUT".
Brian - 86 Visa 17D Sorn(192K)/ 86 BX 17RD (220K) Scrapped/ 92 BX 17TZD Turbo Diesel (191K)
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Post by colinxm »

I couldn't get much done on the xm after work today as it's raining cats and dogs again but I did check out the banjo joints - these are indeed fitted correctly so that rules that out. Pressing the 'bleeding knob' provides a splendid gush of diesel at the pump inlet end which leads me to think that I've either re-assembled the pump incorrectly or that there's some muck in there that's blocking something up.
I also tried advancing and retarding the timing of the pump while the engine was running but this of course didn't help any.

Looks like the pump is coming apart again unless someone has any other splendid ideas (please please please please pleeeeeease). I'll take and post pics too if anyone is interested.

Thanks for all your suggestions, Colin.P
1995 Cit XM 2,1 TD Silver Estate
2004 Pug 307 SW
1989 Pug 205 Cabriolet
1998 Ford Puma
1979 Triumph TR7
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Post by MikeT »

Hi Colin, if you can, set the timing first. If it'll idle there's a few things you can try before resorting to a strip down.

It might be be helpful if you could describe anything else that you've adjusted/moved or changed. Is it semi-electronic and what add-ons does it have?
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Post by colinxm »

Hi Mike, The pump has no electrical add ons, the cold start timing advance and tickover speed are coolant temperature controlled and it is fitted with a "UFO" for turbo boost enrichment. Other than a stripdown similar to your thread to change seals and O-rings no changes have been made. The fuelling screw is now out of position due to my fiddling to try to get it to run and during disassembly I forgot to note the exact position of the govenor shaft but remember it being flush with it's locknut and have put it back just so. I marked the "accelerator" arm with marker pen in relation to it's spindle and am happy that this is correctly fitted.

The car will tickover quite happily but really struggles to rev up any unless I use the priming bulb to get the fuel line firm before I attempt to rev it up, pumping like crazy also causes a short increase in revs without using the accelerator.

Cheers Colin.P
1995 Cit XM 2,1 TD Silver Estate
2004 Pug 307 SW
1989 Pug 205 Cabriolet
1998 Ford Puma
1979 Triumph TR7
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Post by Geoff Lebowski »

Your experience sounds familiar!
This was my experience after dismantling and re-building a pump.....

I seem to remember the idle being ok but revving being reluctant/uneven/misfire/rough. For some reason I had to quite markedly advance the pump timing and even then it wasn't right. I too lost a few of the settings and also 'recognise' the pumping of the primer bulb to help.

Gradually, with fiddling end perseverance, things improved and I had to keep adjusting the timing back towards the correct setting. It eventually ran/runs very well on this timing setting which makes me feel vindicated that I've done everything right.

So, hopefully, you don't feel alone. Also, you'll hopefully persevere but I'd add the following points.

There isn't a logical explanation for why I had to set the timing out initially and then gradually find the need to re-set it as I fiddled but air or an air lock within the pump must have a large bearing on the pump operation and when you consider all the nooks and crannies within a pump I assume it must be likely.

Other obvious questions:

Are you sure you've fitted all the parts?
Did you fit them the right way round? The control collar can fit either way round and one of the key parts controlling delivery quantity?
Did you ensure the governor assembly was fitted properly?
Were the control lever/governor spring assembly fitted properly?
Did the pump have issues before the rebuild?
Did you mix and match parts from different pumps?
How old is the fuel in the tank?

Don't give up!
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Post by MikeT »

No indeed, don't give up yet, plenty more to try.

No worries about the fuel screw (except it may runaway but as long as you're prepared it's not an issue).

As for the governor screw, as long as it's screwed in at least up to the seal (though too far and it will stop the governor moving at all) but flush with the locknut is exactly how my Pug and Xantia pump are, so that sounds good.

Now the accelerator spindle has very fine divisions and I'm not sure a marker pen wouldn't leave room for error but the priority has to be timing before anything, surely?

When you replaced the seals did you remove the distributor head?

Air locks? I think that is a possibility.
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