What not to do to a diesel
Moderator: RichardW
What not to do to a diesel
Hi Gents, this is what not to do after re fitting a Bosch diesel pump...
DO NOT forget to remove the pump drive gear locking pins before you get your missus to spin the starter motor while you try to bleed the injector piping... the pins WILL hold the gear in place, the crankshaft WILL continue to spin, the belt WILL jump the gears and you will lose the valve timing, the engine WILL refuse to rotate more once the valves and pistons get to know each other a little more intimately...
Most especially DO NOT get the missus to try to spin it over one more time just so's you can try to see just where that horrible noise was coming from
The gears will also eat the teeth on the belt - ask me how I know...
Colin.P
DO NOT forget to remove the pump drive gear locking pins before you get your missus to spin the starter motor while you try to bleed the injector piping... the pins WILL hold the gear in place, the crankshaft WILL continue to spin, the belt WILL jump the gears and you will lose the valve timing, the engine WILL refuse to rotate more once the valves and pistons get to know each other a little more intimately...
Most especially DO NOT get the missus to try to spin it over one more time just so's you can try to see just where that horrible noise was coming from
The gears will also eat the teeth on the belt - ask me how I know...
Colin.P
1995 Cit XM 2,1 TD Silver Estate
2004 Pug 307 SW
1989 Pug 205 Cabriolet
1998 Ford Puma
1979 Triumph TR7
2004 Pug 307 SW
1989 Pug 205 Cabriolet
1998 Ford Puma
1979 Triumph TR7
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Ouch. I feel your pain.
It reminds me of an event some 40 years ago when I was going on holiday with Mum, Dad and brother. We were just starting on the annual holiday driving down to Spain and had stopped at (I think) Watford Gap service area for lunch. When my father tried to restart the car - a Vauxha VX 2300 Estate - it wouldn't.
We were towed to the Vauxhall dealer in Milton Keynes where they diagnosed that the timing belt had slipped. It was a Saturday and neither we, nor they, could wait until Monday to sort the problem properly so, with the agreement of my father, they changed the belt, retimed it and set the valve clearances a bit slack so that the valves might hammer themselves back into shape!.
Surprisingly it worked. We finished the holiday and, as far as I can remember, my father ran the car for quite a few years after that.
I don't think that it's option for you though. Valve to piston clearances are much closer on diesel engines!
It reminds me of an event some 40 years ago when I was going on holiday with Mum, Dad and brother. We were just starting on the annual holiday driving down to Spain and had stopped at (I think) Watford Gap service area for lunch. When my father tried to restart the car - a Vauxha VX 2300 Estate - it wouldn't.
We were towed to the Vauxhall dealer in Milton Keynes where they diagnosed that the timing belt had slipped. It was a Saturday and neither we, nor they, could wait until Monday to sort the problem properly so, with the agreement of my father, they changed the belt, retimed it and set the valve clearances a bit slack so that the valves might hammer themselves back into shape!.
Surprisingly it worked. We finished the holiday and, as far as I can remember, my father ran the car for quite a few years after that.
I don't think that it's option for you though. Valve to piston clearances are much closer on diesel engines!
As I get older I think a lot about the hereafter - I go into a room and then wonder what I'm here after.
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"Trying is the first step towards failure" ~ Homer J Simpson
Inside every old person is a young person wondering what the hell happened.
"Trying is the first step towards failure" ~ Homer J Simpson
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The valves are thankfully vertical so don't often get bent.
Chances are you've just put mild dents in the piston faces
Pop the cam cover off and take a look.
It's probably all in one piece still, but if it's not, you can get away with replacing any broken bits, like the cam and it's caps, although finding compatible caps can take a while.
If all is in one piece, remove the cam so you can hand crank the engine with a suitable spanner on the crank bolt to get it back in time, then refit the cam (it's a pain as it's fighting the valve springs) and belt and carefully check the timing by hand!
Chances are you've just put mild dents in the piston faces
Pop the cam cover off and take a look.
It's probably all in one piece still, but if it's not, you can get away with replacing any broken bits, like the cam and it's caps, although finding compatible caps can take a while.
If all is in one piece, remove the cam so you can hand crank the engine with a suitable spanner on the crank bolt to get it back in time, then refit the cam (it's a pain as it's fighting the valve springs) and belt and carefully check the timing by hand!
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Just a little tip for the future as it's a bit late now.
Whenever I fit timing pins in an engine I have a large red laminated card that I fit to the car keys, on this card in large black letters it says "TIMING PINS FITTED" I dont remove the card intill the pins are out, then it goes in the box with the timing pins.
I also use the same system for NO OIL, NO HYDRAULIC FLUID and NO WATER.
Maybe it's just an age thing, but does anyone else have little systems of work to stop this sort of thing from happening??
Regards
Martin.
Whenever I fit timing pins in an engine I have a large red laminated card that I fit to the car keys, on this card in large black letters it says "TIMING PINS FITTED" I dont remove the card intill the pins are out, then it goes in the box with the timing pins.
I also use the same system for NO OIL, NO HYDRAULIC FLUID and NO WATER.
Maybe it's just an age thing, but does anyone else have little systems of work to stop this sort of thing from happening??
Regards
Martin.
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That's an excellent idea Martin!
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Thats a very good idea, might just adopt that myself!
When im servicing the cars i always put the keys in the house away from the garage. So im not tempted to start it without thinking
When im servicing the cars i always put the keys in the house away from the garage. So im not tempted to start it without thinking
Chris
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Hi MartinPleiades wrote:Just a little tip for the future as it's a bit late now.
Whenever I fit timing pins in an engine I have a large red laminated card that I fit to the car keys, on this card in large black letters it says "TIMING PINS FITTED" I dont remove the card intill the pins are out, then it goes in the box with the timing pins.
I also use the same system for NO OIL, NO HYDRAULIC FLUID and NO WATER.
Maybe it's just an age thing, but does anyone else have little systems of work to stop this sort of thing from happening??
Regards
Martin.
Sounds like you've worked in an aviation environment at some time Now if instead of bolts Colin had used a length of rod with big bent ends painted red they would have stood out as it were and been much more visible, after all one bolt head looks much like another particularly at times of stress
But seriously I feel for Colin and I have the utmost respect for somebody who publishes his f?*k up so that the rest of us can learn from it.
Now what size bolt was it that works so well as a locking pin.......?
cachaciero
I think Haynes nicked that idea off martin, but they say put a note on the dashboard... but that is a good idea. Or take a main fuse with a note where the fuse should be saying WHY it's out.
The note should also tell you to double check EVERYTHING, there is so much that can go wrong for example, a spanner on top of a starting engine might fall down and get stuck in somewhere REAL bad, should you not put the timing cover back on.
Not a word of lie now, an old mate of mine took these kind of things VERY seriously, he did the sad old trick of tying a strings around his finger to remind him of things.
The note should also tell you to double check EVERYTHING, there is so much that can go wrong for example, a spanner on top of a starting engine might fall down and get stuck in somewhere REAL bad, should you not put the timing cover back on.
Not a word of lie now, an old mate of mine took these kind of things VERY seriously, he did the sad old trick of tying a strings around his finger to remind him of things.
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a few weeks ago I started my old kawasaki 250 engine, and wondered why the oil light would not go off I ran it for a lot longer than I would/should..
Previously, I had looked at the 'sight glass', the only way of knowing how much oil was in, and, with the engine off, it was a nice dark colour showing a good quantity of oil.. turns out the glass had been marked with oil from many years previously..
once I drained the tablespoon of oil out, and put 2L back in, the light went out nicely
ps have left the flywheel lock in once before not such a bad one to forget......i
Previously, I had looked at the 'sight glass', the only way of knowing how much oil was in, and, with the engine off, it was a nice dark colour showing a good quantity of oil.. turns out the glass had been marked with oil from many years previously..
once I drained the tablespoon of oil out, and put 2L back in, the light went out nicely
ps have left the flywheel lock in once before not such a bad one to forget......i
Now the worst thing you did there was get a woman involved when working on a car
A man would of asked if everything was ready and it was safe to try and start it.
All jokeing aside, as Xac said it's not the end of the world with an xud lump, you should be able to revive it without to much trouble.
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99 C250TD sport estate
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Hi gents, ok, I've removed the rocker cover and all the rockers are intact, off came the engine mounting and timing belt covers, by backing off the crankshaft a little I managed to get the crankshaft into position and locked. Next was to remove the starter motor and then I could "pin" the crank into place. The diesel pump was the locked into position with two new M8 bolts and a new belt was slipped into place and tensioned.
I've turned the engine over by hand for a few revolutions and it seems to have really good compression throughout it's cycle and nothing is fouling so I'm hoping that there's no valve or piston damage.
I can't get any more done today but hope to get enough of it reassembled tomorrow to see if it'll run ok... It'll be a miracle if it does though as I've only just stripped and rebuilt the pump to sort out a persistant weep on it - not entirely sure that everything went back the way that they should until I can fire it up, I was Soooooo close then this...
Colin.P
I've turned the engine over by hand for a few revolutions and it seems to have really good compression throughout it's cycle and nothing is fouling so I'm hoping that there's no valve or piston damage.
I can't get any more done today but hope to get enough of it reassembled tomorrow to see if it'll run ok... It'll be a miracle if it does though as I've only just stripped and rebuilt the pump to sort out a persistant weep on it - not entirely sure that everything went back the way that they should until I can fire it up, I was Soooooo close then this...
Colin.P
1995 Cit XM 2,1 TD Silver Estate
2004 Pug 307 SW
1989 Pug 205 Cabriolet
1998 Ford Puma
1979 Triumph TR7
2004 Pug 307 SW
1989 Pug 205 Cabriolet
1998 Ford Puma
1979 Triumph TR7
Fingers crossed.
99 406 LX HDI 90 estate
99 C250TD sport estate
01 306 HDI 90 meridian estate
Brew my own biodiesel
http://www.shorewasteoil.xtreemhost.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
99 C250TD sport estate
01 306 HDI 90 meridian estate
Brew my own biodiesel
http://www.shorewasteoil.xtreemhost.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;