Leaking Power Steering Pump - Citroen Xantia

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cox377
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Leaking Power Steering Pump - Citroen Xantia

Post by cox377 »

Leaking Power Steering Pump - Citroen Xantia

1998 Xantia 19TD XUD

Hello all, noticed a pool of oil last night under the car, smelt it and it defiantly wasn't engine.. turns out the power steering pump is leaking from the top.

It appears to be leaking from between the pump and where the case splits by the pulley, I can't guarantee that though. Due to the angle it's really had to see exactly where.

I was wondering if there is anywhere notorious that these hydraulic pumps leak from? Can they be fixed?

Thank you for all your hints / tips in advance

CoXen
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Post by Mandrake »

One place where they can leak that can be easily fixed, is the o-rings on the piston "plugs". These are item 1 on the following cross section:

http://homepages.igrin.co.nz/simon/imag ... +2pump.jpg

There are two such piston plugs for the brake/suspension output - one is under the left hand steel output pipe, and the other is the large hex head bolt behind it, which you can see sticking out of the top of the disassembled pump below:

http://homepages.igrin.co.nz/simon/imag ... ppump1.jpg

These have a large black o-ring which is available cheaply from Citroen.

There are also 6 pistons for power steering and they are behind the torx head bolts which you can also see a couple of in that picture. They have small green o-rings, also available, but I haven't heard any cases of them leaking and they are very tight and difficult to get out anyway.

Another place that can leak (but unlikely) is the face you describe where the pulley attaches, item 5 in the diagram, and you can clearly see it in the photo - the triangular face with the pulley wheel on it. This o-ring is NOT available from Citroen, but if it is leaking it can at a pinch be replaced by a square section sphere neck seal, as shown in the photo. The diameter and thickness are just right.

The best thing to do is clean the pump with a degreaser to get it spotlessly clean and free of oil, then let the engine idle whilst inspecting the pump with a bright lamp so you can see exactly where the leak is coming from. Pay particular attention down the back of the pump where the hex head bolt is as this is the most likely leakage source, and it may also help to be ready in place with the lamp and get someone else to start the engine so you can instantly see where it leaks from if the leak is bad.

Edit: Opps, I've just remembered that the pump is located down below the alternator on the TD, so access and visibility is much more limited than it is on a petrol model, so it may be difficult to look for leaks down the back of the pump in situ. :(

Regards,
Simon
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Post by CitroJim »

Mandrake wrote:Edit: Opps, I've just remembered that the pump is located down below the alternator on the TD, so access and visibility is much more limited than it is on a petrol model, so it may be difficult to look for leaks down the back of the pump in situ. :(
On a 1998 TD with aircon Simon, which they all have at that age, the pump is above the alternator so access is easy!

Only the early 1.9TDs sans aircon had the pump below the alternator :D
Jim

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Post by cox377 »

Thanks for the response, I think it looks like its coming from the large HEX bolt that I can see at the back. I've cleaned it down and then started the car with the lamp its just really had to see, it seems to spit oil from a place that is just casing.

I shall try and get a piccy up tonight

Thanks for all the links

Much appreciated

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Post by Mandrake »

CitroJim wrote:
Mandrake wrote:Edit: Opps, I've just remembered that the pump is located down below the alternator on the TD, so access and visibility is much more limited than it is on a petrol model, so it may be difficult to look for leaks down the back of the pump in situ. :(
On a 1998 TD with aircon Simon, which they all have at that age, the pump is above the alternator so access is easy!

Only the early 1.9TDs sans aircon had the pump below the alternator :D
Oh ? That's interesting.

My mums 1993 1.9TD (mechanical injector / no ecu) has the HP pump (single output type) crammed in below the alternator with terrible access - and it does have air conditioning too.

If the HP pump is up the top like it is on a petrol then the hex head bolt can be removed without even removing the pump :D provided that one is careful to retrieve the spring under the bolt and not let it fall down into the bowels of the engine bay.... :oops:

Regards,
Simon
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Post by Xaccers »

Mandrake wrote:
CitroJim wrote:
Mandrake wrote:Edit: Opps, I've just remembered that the pump is located down below the alternator on the TD, so access and visibility is much more limited than it is on a petrol model, so it may be difficult to look for leaks down the back of the pump in situ. :(
On a 1998 TD with aircon Simon, which they all have at that age, the pump is above the alternator so access is easy!

Only the early 1.9TDs sans aircon had the pump below the alternator :D
Oh ? That's interesting.

My mums 1993 1.9TD (mechanical injector / no ecu) has the HP pump (single output type) crammed in below the alternator with terrible access - and it does have air conditioning too.

If the HP pump is up the top like it is on a petrol then the hex head bolt can be removed without even removing the pump :D provided that one is careful to retrieve the spring under the bolt and not let it fall down into the bowels of the engine bay.... :oops:

Regards,
Simon
Where's her compressor?
That's a flippin' early one, glad to hear it's still going :)
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Post by cox377 »

Hello All, I've got a piccy of the pump

Image

From the piccy, you can see, I think it's either coming from the torex on the right or where the case splits on the left. I'm sure it's not coming from the black pipe.

Whats weird, it fills up into a puddle infront of the black stem in front of black pipe, but looks like its coming from the stem itself the way it seems to spit from it

Appreciated as always

CoXen
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Post by citroenxm »

Xac wrote:
Mandrake wrote:
CitroJim wrote:
On a 1998 TD with aircon Simon, which they all have at that age, the pump is above the alternator so access is easy!

Only the early 1.9TDs sans aircon had the pump below the alternator :D
Oh ? That's interesting.

My mums 1993 1.9TD (mechanical injector / no ecu) has the HP pump (single output type) crammed in below the alternator with terrible access - and it does have air conditioning too.

If the HP pump is up the top like it is on a petrol then the hex head bolt can be removed without even removing the pump :D provided that one is careful to retrieve the spring under the bolt and not let it fall down into the bowels of the engine bay.... :oops:

Regards,
Simon
Where's her compressor?
That's a flippin' early one, glad to hear it's still going :)

Thats a Sinker Xantia, one of the last!! I cant picture that setup either!

Ive just put Air con on my 1993 ANTI SINKER Xantia, from a Series 2 car, so swapped Oil sump, swapped Altinator/HP Pump braket, put Air con compressor on the Sump as per all useual places, and HP pump up top.... Couldn't do it any other way.

Just need to do the wiring now, then get her gassed up!

A Pic of that would be BRILLIANT!

Paul
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Post by Mandrake »

cox377 wrote:Hello All, I've got a piccy of the pump

From the piccy, you can see, I think it's either coming from the torex on the right or where the case splits on the left. I'm sure it's not coming from the black pipe.
Hmm, I must be blind but I can't see any clear indication of oil in that picture ?
Whats weird, it fills up into a puddle infront of the black stem in front of black pipe, but looks like its coming from the stem itself the way it seems to spit from it
Ok now you have me baffled :lol: I can't picture what you're refering to here - black stem ? Black pipe ? Is the black pipe you're refering to the flexible inlet hose ? Or the steel output pipe, considering both are black...is the area you're refering to out of the frame of the picture ?

Regards,
Simon
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1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
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Post by cox377 »

Hello Simon,

Sorry for the poor description, the black shaft is meant to be where the black pipe, the steel output one :D off the pump as seen as the bottom of the picture goes into. It's a cyclinder about an inch tall.

I think the best bet will be to get some more piccy's up later. The current picture is shown after I cleared the oil away.

Thank you for your patience

CoXen
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Post by cox377 »

hello again,

Took to an independent Citroen specialist tonight and he thinks the pump is fractured.. the spray coming out of the pump is getting bigger daily so i'm in the market for new pump.

Can anyone make any recommendations

Much appreciated as always

CoXen
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Post by citroenxm »

Got a spare pump or two here!!

If you want a second hand one, they ARE all good pumps, Id just need the diamiter of the pully...


Paul
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
cox377
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Post by cox377 »

Hello Paul,

Thanks for coming back to me, I've just been to measure the pully, does 105mm sound right? what are the sizes?

Have you a price in mind

Very much appreciated

James
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2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Post by citroenxm »

Yes, there are slightly different sizes, but I think its the difference between petrol and diesel installations... Anyway, Ill get one out tomorrow AFTERNOON and it will probably be about 35 quid plus 8 quid postage (IF yur in the UK..)??

Paul
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
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Post by CitroJim »

If the pump case is cracked, this may be due to running on a flat accumulator leading to hydraulic spikes and surges.

Check the regulator tick rate and just as importantly, for how long the pump is working to bring pressure back up to recharge the accumulator. Anything less than 30 seconds between regulator ticks bears investigation and if the pump is working most of the time, that too bears further investigation as it'll just wreck any new pump.

Essentially, with the car stabilised at normal height, listen to the regulator ticks. When it ticks once, listen to the pump. You should be able to clearly hear when it is idling and when it is actively pumping. Long priods of active pumping coupled with short tick rates are the warning signs.

If you car is hydractive, check the tick /pumping rates in both hard and soft modes. If the tick rate is significantly shorter in soft mode, the hydractive electrovalves are possibly leaky. Have a look at my thread entitled "Fast Ticking in Soft Mode" You can force hard mode by removing the hydractive ECU fuse (F8 in the engine bay fusebox).
Jim

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