Diesel rev counter

colinxm · Post by **colinxm** » 08 Sep 2009, 16:07

Hi, anyone here retro fitted a fully mechanical diesel pump to a Lucas EPIC equiped motor as I have ? if so, have you figured out how to get the rev counter to work again ? please, do tell...

Colin.P

Post by **Peter.N.** » 08 Sep 2009, 17:42

Hi Colin

No sucess then.

Peter

colinxm · Post by **colinxm** » 08 Sep 2009, 18:17

Hi Peter, fancy meeting you here

I haven't used too much time on it yet but as there is a tdc sender fitted to the bellhousing as was original on the EPIC setup and as this has a corresponding connector to the older engine wiring loom from the Bosch setup that I've retrofitted it figures that I just have to connect the wiring to the rev counter somewhere behind the dash (the wiring here is original to the EPIC system)but as I don't have wiring diagrams to paw over I'm hoping that someone somewhere has been there and done this before me.

Ever the optimist

Colin.P

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 08 Sep 2009, 18:26

Im NO expert on Epic, but would have thought that Epic or Bosch, the rev counter would still be taken from the same TDC sensor on the back of the bell house..

Hope you get sorted..

Paul

colinxm · Post by **colinxm** » 08 Sep 2009, 18:49

Hi Paul, the EPIC system uses the crank TDC sensor on the bellhousing to know exactly where the engine is in it's cycle in the same way that a fuel injection system for a petrol car works. Problem is that the signal for the rev counter is sent directly by the ECU to the rev counter on the EPIC system but as this ECU has now been removed there's no signal. I was hoping that it would simply be plug and play with the two wiring looms but there's either a missmatch between the older and newer wiring looms or possibly part of the wiring is missing and will need to be remade. If I could get my hands on some decent wiring diagrams for the two different systems I'm sure I could figure it out but trying to get hold of info like that while living in Norway... I might as well be on Mars

Best wishes Colin.P

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 08 Sep 2009, 18:53

Well, whats needed then would be a "Mchanical Rev counter, of which I have a number of... and a "mechanical" TDC sensor, which im sure you are aware of now...

It would be a case of then finding the were that takes the signal from the ECU to the rev counter in the car and utilising the wire to take the TDC signal to the mechnical rev counter, and re route the wire under the bonnet to the mechanical TDC sensor..

Peter, didn't you do an Epic to Bosch conversion?? What happened on your Rev counter part?

Paul

colinxm · Post by **colinxm** » 08 Sep 2009, 19:34

Ahhh, I'm led to believe that the rev counters are identical (both electronically driven) and I have fitted the TDC sensor that was fitted with the Bosch system, the problem is indeed in the wiring

all I've got to do now is try to find out the wiring info needed to finish the conversion without the car catching fire in the middle of the night

Cheers Colin.P

Post by **Peter.N.** » 08 Sep 2009, 21:38

Hi Paul

No, the only conversion I have done was mechanical Lucas to Bosch.

Colin

I am sure that the instruments are the same and the signal source is the same but was probably supplied via the ECU, so as you say you need a decent diagram. I have a copy of Noz's CD which contains the diagrams but takes some research to see what is connected to what, I did manage to sort my suspension ECU connections with it - eventually. I can email you a copy if you don't have one, but its a big file

Peter

colinxm · Post by **colinxm** » 08 Sep 2009, 21:50

Thanks for the offer Peter, why didn't I think of this ? I have a copy of the Noz disc someplace... I haven't seen it for a few years but it must be here somewhere

Watch this space !

Cheers Colin.P

Post by **CitroJim** » 09 Sep 2009, 07:06

Hi Colin,

This posting may help. Mark2.1td has recently converted a 406 2.1TD to Bosch mechanical.

On the Xantia 2.1TD the rev counter and speedo are driven by the EPIC ECU. I'm led to believe that if you leave the old EPIC ECU in place but disconnected from the pump, all instruments and the glowplug controller (also ECU controlled) will continue to work as normal.

All you need to do is remove the engine management light bulb (or otherwise disable it).

colinxm · Post by **colinxm** » 09 Sep 2009, 17:04

Thanks a million Jim, why didn't I think of that ? I'll now have to dig out all the original Lucas parts that I ripped off and stick them all together again...

Still, at least I'll have the oportunity to reinstate the good old EPIC pump again should I wish (don't think so)

Best wishes Colin.P

colinxm · Post by **colinxm** » 10 Sep 2009, 20:25

I spent five hours today to reinstate the original EPIC wiring loom and guess what ? still no rev counter... I wonder if the ECU takes it's signal from the sensor on number one injector instead of from the TDC sensor as I believed. As I've fitted the higher pressure injectors from the Bosch setup the injector sensor is of course missing now.

All that grovelling under the bonnet just to gain an engine warning lamp

I'm off to get a drink now...

Night all, Colin.P

lolingram · Post by **lolingram** » 10 Sep 2009, 20:53

I spent five hours today to reinstate the original EPIC wiring loom and guess what ? still no rev counter... I wonder if the ECU takes it's signal from the sensor on number one injector instead of from the TDC sensor as I believed. As I've fitted the higher pressure injectors from the Bosch setup the injector sensor is of course missing now.

Could you not fit a Nº 2(?) Bosch injector from a later model - say 1997?

Post by **Peter.N.** » 10 Sep 2009, 22:23

Hi Colin

I know the feeling! I would have thought that the connections to the rev counter and from the TDC sensor both come out on the EPIC loom plug, just a question of identifying them and connecting them together.

Peter

colinxm · Post by **colinxm** » 11 Sep 2009, 16:48

Hi gents,

Lol, I'd give it a go but then there's the problem of obtaining the correct injector - anyone got one spare for some beer tokens ?

Peter, I'm really going to get stuck into it this weekend and chase some wires so watch this space...

Colin.P