Xantia front caliper

Xantidote · Post by **Xantidote** » 02 Sep 2009, 15:56

A little guidance please, as my BoL says nothing about how to fit the piston back into the caliper. Had removed caliper to check all OK, as o/s brakes binding a bit, and definitely more so than on n/s. Found a little dirty LHM in caliper, and a bit of play in the sliding mechanism, but nothing obviously wrong. No rust in caliper bore, or on corresponding piston surfaces.

Am trying to fit the piston back into caliper bore without disturbing the outer dust seal. However, this seal is making it impossible (so far) to refit the piston. Is it possible this way, or must I remove the dust seal, and then refit it after piston's back in the caliper (I didn't want to disturb the seal if possible).

It seems that over the years (decades) the detailed content in Haynes is reducing.

Cheers - Martin

KP · Post by KP » 02 Sep 2009, 16:01

are you turning the piston as you push it back in as they dont simply push back in as they require turning so allow backward movement.

Xantidote · Post by **Xantidote** » 02 Sep 2009, 17:25

Hi KP.

I will be turning the piston once it's partially into the caliper, and thus engaging on the threaded handbrake spindle, or whatever you call it.

Current problem is getting the piston started into the caliper's bore without destroying the outer dust seal, and I'd like to know whether I must remove the dust seal first. I'm beginning to think that's the only way - presently ploughing through searches on the forum to learn more

Cheers - Martin

Post by **Peter.N.** » 02 Sep 2009, 17:57

coat all the sliding parts in LHM.

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 02 Sep 2009, 17:59

Just to be clear, you totally dismandled the piston?

CitroJim and I helped TehAgent put his back together after he got carried away and dismatled his trying to change the pads.
Maybe Jim will remember all the details.

VertVega · Post by **VertVega** » 02 Sep 2009, 18:50

In this "Xantia Front Brakes Overhaul" thread ( http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... hp?t=27997 ) I have included some pictures
but unfortunately I have never removed piston during overhaul. Since you have removed it, can you send some pictures. It would be nice to see components, seals etc.

Below is a partial close up (before and after picture) from lower part of the piston where seal and gap is seen clearly. You won't disturb any seal there, I guess.

As Peter.N. said apply LHM to all sliding parts and seals. It is a good medicine

Turn piston (clockwise) and at the same time keep pressing. When piston is completely in then below gap will disappear and only seal will be in that area.

VertVega · Post by **VertVega** » 02 Sep 2009, 19:10

Xantidote wrote: It seems that over the years (decades) the detailed content in Haynes is reducing.

At the moment I'm reading BX Haynes Manual which I borrowed from library (Learning Hydraulics

).
To tell the truth it is like from another planet compared to the Haynes Xantia manual. Detailed information with lots of better quality (sharp) pictures

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 02 Sep 2009, 19:21

VertVega wrote:
Xantidote wrote: It seems that over the years (decades) the detailed content in Haynes is reducing.
At the moment I'm reading BX Haynes Manual which I borrowed from library (Learning Hydraulics ).
To tell the truth it is like from another planet compared to the Haynes Xantia manual. Detailed information with lots of better quality (sharp) pictures

Haynes have themselves admitted to dumbing down. They no longer do workshop manuals based on a complete strip, instead they do service and repair manuals.
They said the issue was most car owners got scared by the workshop manuals so they had to dumb them down to get more sales.
We've mentioned several times that they could have produced PDF workshop manuals for us non-numpties.

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 02 Sep 2009, 20:01

i think the dust seal outter lip is in a recess/chanle in the kneck of the calliper body, thuss not allowing it to go home after the piston is in place,

regards malcolm

Post by **CitroJim** » 02 Sep 2009, 21:26

I have to agree the BX BoL is a world away from the Xantia manual and a lot of it is very relevant to the Xantia. I've just looked at the braking chapetr and it tells you how, over four pages, how to strip and rebuild the caliper in exquisite detail. I'll scan up the pages and post them in a while.

I believe there are two versions of the BX BoL. Go for the brown covered one.

I remember the fun we had with TehAgent's claiper Xac! That was difficult to compress it back together but we did it

Vertvega, a really good guide to hydraulics can be found here.

It'll take me a few minutes to warm up the scanner; be right back...

Xantidote · Post by **Xantidote** » 02 Sep 2009, 21:29

Thanks all for your replies. Must be brief till tommorrow

Xac: read of your doings with Jim, which made me wary of total strip of piston, and only got as far as removing the circlip and retrieving 1 washer, 2 convex spring type washers plus a small ball race, and a thickish spreader washer with 4 indents evenly around circumference. Ah, forgot, there was the ratchet spring in there. Removed this lot after piston clamped in vice, using a socket to take compression load whilst circlip removed.

Behind this lot I found a green coloured seal, and decided not wise to go further without more knowledge. Found nothing broken, so put this all back together. I'll decide tomorrow whether to strip it again for photos - not sure I've done anything that I haven't seen elsewhere on forum.

Vertvega; read and saw your previous postings - your piccy shows the dust seal that I'm struggling with.

Malcolm: yes, thanks for that. That's the info I'm after. Guess I'll try making up some sleeve tomoorow to ease piston passed the dust seal

More tomorrow. Thanks guys - Martin

Post by **CitroJim** » 02 Sep 2009, 22:18

Martin,

Here's the pages from the BX BoL on overhauling the front calipers:

Page 1

Page 2

Page 3

They are the same as a Xantia Caliper. Hope they help a little.

Apologies for the quality, the BoL iteself is not in its first flush of youth...

VertVega · Post by **VertVega** » 02 Sep 2009, 22:37

Xac wrote: They said the issue was most car owners got scared by the workshop manuals so they had to dumb them down to get more sales.
We've mentioned several times that they could have produced PDF workshop manuals for us non-numpties.

Well I guess for most of the "normal" car owners who just want to drive that might be scary. I would have liked more Workshop Manual kind of book for Xantia with lots of diagrams and goodies

Jim, I have exactly the same book, just checked the scanned pages you have sent. Thanks for the link, I have downloaded and now it is in my "archive".

SLYTZD · Post by **SLYTZD** » 03 Sep 2009, 08:08

fortunately I have never had to strip the front caliper on a Xantia but it might be worth noting that I on a motorcycle I had years ago the front caliper was sticking on due to corrosion under the piston seals. This would not only pinch the piston but make it murder to try to get the piston back in.

Xantidote · Post by **Xantidote** » 03 Sep 2009, 11:01

Thanks for all the info guys

An apology to Jim in that I do have same BX BoL. Others will find his scanned pages very helpful. I used the BX information as a guide, as the caliper looks to all intents & purposes the same as on Xantia. However, looking at Fig 9.10 on Jim's Page 3, the innards of the Xantia's piston look different, in particular there are 2 convex/dished spring washers in it, which I found sandwiched between 2 thick "washers", all held in place by a circlip. Was the producer of the diagram himself confused, or was there a little redesign for the Xantia? I haven't touched the Control Mechanism as it looks good and greasey, and BoL says special tool needed, but Fig 9.17 shows it to have 5 dished spring washers, and maybe Citroen added an extra two of these to Xantia's piston innards? Certainly what I call the dust seal is a little different on the Xantia to that shown on the BX.

Jim, when you & Xac struggled with TehAgent's caliper (another thread), I wasn't sure whether you were talking about stripping of the piston (item 2 in Fig. 9.10), or the handbrake control mechanism (item 4 of Fig. 9.10).

SLYTZD: Yes, in one way I was hoping to find a little corrosion somewhere, to explain the slight binding, but piston & bore fine, so I'm not expecting to find any under the piston seal. In fact, I'm reluctant to even remove seal for fear of damaging what at present looks good. I shall tread warily.

To slide the piston back into caliper, I need to spread the lip of the dust seal. I'm thinking of using bit of a plastic bottle to use as a sleeve, if can find one of right diameter - unless anyone's got a better idea

Cheers - back later!

Martin

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