Xantia starting problem.

[KennyW]

Hi Gang,

Here's a quick update re my problem:

Have checked for air leaks - zero
Have checked glow plugs fine
When running no problems with pump
New battery fitted and fully charged.
The key is being recognised by immobiliser.

So here's the latest it requires approx 23 turns and then she starts resulting in an beeping alarm and flashing yellow key light.

This happens with engine hot or cold.

Any suggestions

[citroenxm]

Still sounds like glow plugs - have you checked the actuall operaton of the glow plugs? Is the Black Glow plug Box near the battery working and turning the Plugs on??

23 turns sounds more like the amount of turns to heat the compressed air to ignite the diesel...

The other thing you can try, crack an injector union with a 17mm spanner and spin the engine and see if you've got any diesel at the injector...

If you have then it HAS to be glow plugs... if not, then theres a fuel return leak, possibly in the return pipes draining the fuel...

The third possiblity is a Faulty Injection Pump....

Paul

[Xantidote]

Have you checked the voltage at the glowplugs/on the busbar?

As Paul suggests, check for fuel at injector union.

Worst case scenario would be poor compression. Has the starting problem suddenly occurred, or just crept up slowly? Have you done anything recently to upset the system?

Martin

[Peter.N.]

Could be a sticking fuel solonoid, if it doesn't have a keypad, very easy to check and change, if it does - your in trouble.

[KennyW]

Thanks for the replies guys,

Is there any way to check the solenoid is working without removing the armour surrounding my pump, from what i can see and citronjim's stripe down of the fuel pump (bosch) the answer is no.

This all stems from Nov last year when i had a faulty ignition switch.

The other obivous possibility is the new switch is faulty.

Kenny

[CitroJim]

Kenny,

Sorry to hear this is still not resolved We must try harder.

The only way of testing the stop solenoid on an armoured pump is to crack a union as already described. There is another less invasive way though. Watch the tailpipe as the engine is cranking and look for smoke. If you see none then it's a fuel issue and if you see white/grey smoke you know then it's either electrical in that the glowplugs are not working or it's a lack of compression; if the compression is poor for some reason, the car will be very hard to start (even with good glowplugs) but may appear to run OK once up and running.

Is this fault only apparant on the first start of the day or is it there always? Say you stop the engine after a run and restart say, after an hour. Is it still very difficult to start?

[KennyW]

Thanks for the reply Jim,

When you crack open an injector, how much fuel would you see coming through?

Also how does it come through, flows or in spurts and how quickly.

One other silly question, would the number of turns build pressure on the solenoid eventually cause it to release (sticky solenoid) hence it starting.

Next silly question when i fitted the new ignition barrel I found 2 wires had been cut,1 on the brown connector and 1 on the grey connector. i suspect someone tried to steal the car(Our traveller friends are quite bad for stealing cars from driveways up here). I have re connected them as normal, would this have anything to do with the problem

Kenny

[Peter.N.]

A small but discernable ammount will come out in spurts. I wouldn't think that its pressure but vibration that would open the solonoid. I wouldn't think your missing connections would affect the starting if it doesn't affect the runing.

[KennyW]

Thanks for the reply Peter,

I need to get the car going as winter appraoches,not the best time of year to cycle

I will get back to the forum once its going with the diagnosis

Kenny

[CitroJim]

I agree, any fundamental electrical problem at the ignition switch would have other effects on the general running of the car. After 23 turns, the battery will be sagging which would account for the alarm and immobiliser lights coming on.

When cracking an injector union, for safety reasons, I always wrap a rag around it amd look for it becoming wet. High pressure diesel spurting out can cut skin like a knife and injects diesel deep into the flesh. Not good and the wounds take a long time to heal.

Kenny, you've not answered the questuion if this only happens on the first start of the day or is always apparant.

[Xantidote]

Kenny,

I bow to CitroJim's experience regarding cracking a union, and use of a rag.

On a marine diesel that I work on, I sometimes have to prime/bleed the fuel system by cracking the union of each injector in turn. I just crack it half a turn. On spinning the engine, I then see fuel dripping from the union.

Hope it proves to only be a small problem

Cheers - Martin

[CitroJim]

I bow to CitroJim's experience regarding cracking a union, and use of a rag.

Playing safe here Martin. This a a public forum and all advice given should be with safety very much in mind. The last thing any of us would like is for a member or reader to be injured through any advice given; hence the use of a rag in this case and need of firm support when working underneath a hydraulic car.

[KennyW]

Thanks again for the replies,

I have not had the engine running for any length of time for it to reach normal operating temp so I don't know the answer to the hot and cold starting question. Will get back to you on that one.

It will be the weekend at the earlie :st, weather dependent

Kenny

[Xantidote]

Not a highjack:

Thanks Jim for your comments about safety and the risks with high injection pressures. Will remember this next time I'm bleeding airlocks out of an engine. The need for axle stands under a car is easier to appreciate, than dealing with the "invisible" forces of fuel injection.

Cheers - Martin

[taffy]

ive had a problem like this on a 1.9td...for me i had a broken wire going to the pump by the pump...was intermitent and then stopped completly...if i were u i would get the bk of the pump removed anyway as the armour plate is a pain!