Xantia 1.9TD Aux Belt Failure

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Post by citroenxm »

petjb2000 wrote:
The car has air con but I suspect that the cause of the auxillary belt failure was a chip out of the crankshaft pulley which neatly cut away one edge of the belt. The tensioners all felt ok (I checked these closely after reading the posts on this forum about previous failures).
THERE YOU ARE YOU'VE ANSWERED THE QUERY!!

Your tensioner is buggered! A chip DOES NOT wear a grove off the side, the worn tensioner does!!

When you get her running again and back together, LOOK at the tensioner with the engine running and see the angle it is sitting at, Id be pretty sure IT had dug the groove!!! Seriously!! GET IT CHANGED!!!


Paul
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Post by citrov6 »

sounds like that tensioner is something that should be regularly changed, when is it recommended to be changed?

I'm wondering whether i should do mine its obviously the original one 11 years old , and with 64kmiles on it

scarey story thanks for posting
Love my black v6 xant - only one with cream coloured leather too!
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2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Post by citroenxm »

Its down to the angle it sits at when the engine is RUNNING, my V6 with about 65k on it is still fine, I think ti only affects the ones on XUD Diesel engines with Air Con


Paul
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
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Post by citrov6 »

ok thanks. the other v6 is fine that has 143kmiles on it. i guess these don't get attacked by as much torque as the diesels
Love my black v6 xant - only one with cream coloured leather too!
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Post by CitroJim »

citrov6 wrote:ok thanks. the other v6 is fine that has 143kmiles on it. i guess these don't get attacked by as much torque as the diesels
Although the tensioners on the XUD and V6 look similar and work in the same way, they are executed very differently. The V6 one is was well designed and designed to last!

I would be very surprised if a V6 tensioner ever failed.
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Post by andmcit »

The XU/D tensioner bearing races tend to be made of candlewax:

(BTW - this chewed up belt was what was left clinging onto the centre
bearing race after the outer rim race had gone awol)

Image
Image
Image

no sign or sound of failure until the valves started slapping the pistons... :shock:

belt was recently renewed by Cit Indy for previous owner not long before the
car got bought by me - moral here may be to be cynical about ANYTHING
ANYONE has done on a newly purchased car until it's been checked - in this
case removal of the timing covers (particular faff on this XM 2.0TCT engine).

Andrew
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Post by citroenxm »

Yours was the Cam belt tensioner Andrew, Id say you were very lucky with that one... XUD tensioners are quite different, and Ive NEVER heard of an XUD Cam Belt tensioner failing, yet :-)


Paul
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M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

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Post by admiral51 »

Hi Peter

Just to add my thoughts on this aux belt problem.
I had a similar problem with my 1.9TD This Topic a while back and eventually traced the problem to the carrier arm that has the spring behind it.If you look at the first couple of pics you can see the damage to the top roller which cut through the belt i got lucky as it dropped the belt out the bottom as i switched it off at home :D :D .
As Paul says if you look down at the belt and pulleys you can see that the carrier arm/top roller will be out of alignment with the other pulleys/rollers

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Post by petjb2000 »

Thanks again. OK all heard loud and clear. I'll check out the tensioner and recheck (and recheck) the timing at the weekend. And hopefully its a runner. I hope to have better news by Monday.

Thanks all
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Post by CitroJim »

Hi Peter,

I've just noticed you live in Tas :D I had the pleasure of spending a couple of weeks there back in 1993. Great place!

I have to 100% agree on the tensioner. This thread may be of use in checking and replacing it.

Good luck and hope to hear all is well on Monday :D
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Post by citronut »

Jim wrote
"I've just noticed you live in Tas"

you going to pop round and lend a hand then Sir Jim TEA HE,

its only just round the corrner, well of the plannet

regards malcolm
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Post by CitroJim »

citronut wrote: you going to pop round and lend a hand then Sir Jim TEA HE,
Wish I could Malcolm. I fairly fell in love with the place when I went there. I love all of Australia but Tasmania has a special pace in my heart...
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Post by petjb2000 »

You are certainly a welcoming and knowledgeable bunch. On another forum people from another continent to your west asked if there were many Citroens in Tanzania. I certainly like it here and you are welcome to pop around to give me a hand anytime. I'll event put the kettle on when you visit! There aren't any other 1.9TDs in the state which makes your knowledgeable advice so much more welcome.

Its Monday and the engine in running! It was the *&^% timing. Thanks for the advice Malcolm. I would time it but each time I rotated it, it would be out by one tooth even though the flywheel, fuel pump and cam pulley had been pegged. I hadn't enough tension between the fuel pump and cambelt and when tensioning it would pull the belt back when they were unpegged. But finally I got it right. And after bleeding the fuel system etc. it runs.

Injectors were serviced and shims machined just because they needed doing but were not the root cause of the no go.

Cause of auxiliary belt failure? I'm still not 100% on the tensioner. They all feel OK, rotate easily with no stiffness or resistance. They also look in much better condition than those in your photos, i.e. no rust etc. I might guess at this being that we don't salt roads here. The auxiliary belt failed by a nice thin continuous strip coming off one side. Each part of the belt (that remaining on the car and the small strip that threw off) showed no signs of glazing or heat etc. I wish that I had taken more photos and I must get a photo of the crank pulley. I will run and monitor for the next few days, check the tensioners for heat and alignment etc before SWMBO gets the car back (she is starting to enjoy the XM way too much) and consider whether I need to replace them.

Thanks gents,

Peter
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Post by CitroJim »

Excellent news Peter :D

Did you carefully check the bearings and pivot axle of the auto tensioner? The bearings break up and "dig" into the axle and two things can happen: The tensioner can jam at the extreme end of its travey and take all the tension out of the belt or if it does not do that, it can ride at an angle on the belt, effectively putting lateral force on the belt and tries to push it off the pulleys, hence wear and disintegration of the edges.

I've seen one so bad the pivot bolt had snapped :o

It only takes a little wear for the damm thing to do this :twisted:

Aploogies, we're all a bit paranoid about them around here :)
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Post by citronut »

i have just replaced the cam belt,tensioners,water pump, and the aux belt auto tensioner on my 98 R reg 1.9 TD,

i started out to fit cam belt kit and water pump,

but when i looked down the end of the engine i could see the aux belt auto tensioner tillting at a very steep angle,

when i took it off (what fun that was) i found the pivot bush had copletely un/bonded from its houseing, why dont they use a proper bearing in there (bad design),

i will start a new post and try to add some picy's

regards malcolm
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