Serious Question for a change.

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

Post Reply
User avatar
falling-out-with-my-car
Posts: 1928
Joined: 06 Apr 2008, 15:26
Location: Northamptonshire
My Cars: Citroen C5 Aircross 8 speed Automatic, Flair Model with far to many toys and nice comfy armchair like leather seats. ha ha Ive just had a conversation with the car. setting everything up verbally
x 24

Serious Question for a change.

Post by falling-out-with-my-car »

My Neighbour Has an Xantia X-registraition 1,9 TD HDi estate. approx 90,000 miles on the clock.

He has a problem with the engine cutting out at all speeds, it will even cut out at 70mph.
He has been to Citroens for a diagnostic's session £69 and the results are as follows.

Lexia. Temp Fault fuel High & low pressure.
Fuel High pressure Lack of pressure.
Temp fault on exaust gas recycling open circuit.
errased faults with Lexia.


Has anybody please got any ideas or suffered similar problems with a similar xantia. I have forwarded Martins details but suggested asking the forum members first as my neighbour is not online.

apparently Citroen are now pointing to a problem with the turbo and there is talk of replacing it with a new unit, which sounds a bit like clutching at straws to me and in my experience Citroen will quote you one figure and at the end of the day you could end up paying through the nose and still have the problem. they have also said something about there being two fuel pumps one high pressure and one low and there could be a problem with either.

any sound advice would be a bonus . the very same citroen garage stung me for £400 for a set of pulleys and a serpentine belt Ouch!!.

thank you in advance.

Nigel.
Citroen Xantia S2 1.9 TD estate 189K soon to be broken for parts Jan 2017 headlamps & radiator fan assembly already spoken for & A 1987 Citroen 2CV6 special just for fun.
New addition Citroen C5 2.0 HDi Exclusive Hatch purchased 09/12/2016 with 83K on the clock.
citroenxm
Posts: 8061
Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto

2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Post by citroenxm »

Well, if anyone looked and thought hard enough, what has the Turbo got to do with Fuel Pressure problem... The turbo makes AIR PRESSURE not fuel problems, Whats the history with the Fuel Pump in the Tank?

That and the High pressure pump under the bonnet are the two items that pressure the fuel.. Id raise my alarm bells with that diagnostic and their next procedure...

Paul
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 49518
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: Paggers
My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
x 6156
Contact:

Post by CitroJim »

Yes, absolutely. Did the use of the word "temp" mean temperature or temporary in the context of the recorded EGR fault and first fuel pressure fault? I suspect the latter.

The meaningful one is the fuel pressure and certainly the one bringing the engine to a halt. If the fuel pressure falls below a certain level, the whole shebang shuts down to protect itself.

This quite nicely demonstrates how information given by the Lexia needs to be carefully interpreted. Quite how they interpreted a turbo fault from this is beyond me :?

Time to investigate a new garage methinks...
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
RichardW
Forum Treasurer
Posts: 10812
Joined: 07 Aug 2002, 17:12
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars: MK2 '17 C4GP 1.6 BlueHDi 120
'13 3008 1.6 HDi GripControl
x 983

Post by RichardW »

Given that the cost of a new LP pump is about the same as a diag session at a main dealer, I'd just change the thing - this is the most likely cause of this problem. Is the pump noisy when the ignition is first turned on (don't crank it, just listen)? You should also change the fuel filter, complete with its housing - the pump tends to shed debris into the filter, and it's possible for this to bypass the filter when changing it - changing the whole unit avoids this problem.
Richard W
User avatar
falling-out-with-my-car
Posts: 1928
Joined: 06 Apr 2008, 15:26
Location: Northamptonshire
My Cars: Citroen C5 Aircross 8 speed Automatic, Flair Model with far to many toys and nice comfy armchair like leather seats. ha ha Ive just had a conversation with the car. setting everything up verbally
x 24

Post by falling-out-with-my-car »

jim, richard & paul,

the fault diagnosis was temporary and not temperature sorry I wasn't clear on that one.

As I understand it the gent is ill at the moment, I shall try to get your answers back to him tommorow.

Thank You for your help.

Regards Nigel
Citroen Xantia S2 1.9 TD estate 189K soon to be broken for parts Jan 2017 headlamps & radiator fan assembly already spoken for & A 1987 Citroen 2CV6 special just for fun.
New addition Citroen C5 2.0 HDi Exclusive Hatch purchased 09/12/2016 with 83K on the clock.
User avatar
Old-Guy
Posts: 1798
Joined: 11 Sep 2008, 12:08
Location: Gloucestershire
My Cars: 2011 Grand C4 Picasso VTR+ 1.6HDi in Kyanos Blue
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
x 17

Post by Old-Guy »

Clearly, whoever 'interpreted' the diagnostics has no idea.

Low and High fuel pressure faults. Both pumps need an adequate supply of fuel; the high pressure pump depends on the low for its supply - if the LP pump doesn't produce enough output (volume and pressure) the HP pump can't produce sufficient pressure.

I agree entirely with Richard and Jim - start at the beginning: make sure the in-tank filter is clean, change the LP pump and the filter. Of course you need a garage where the mechanics possess and use a little intelligence!

Where-abouts are you Nigel? Perhaps someone on the forum can recommend an independent Citroen specialist somewhere reasonably near you?

Guy
2011 Grand C4 Picasso VTR+ 1.6HDi in Kyanos Blue
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - after 11 years now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
Krede
Posts: 75
Joined: 24 Jun 2009, 18:22
Location: Denmark
My Cars:

Post by Krede »

1.9 Hdi?.. I was not aware that it came in any other displacement than 2.0.. :?:
Xantia 2.0 Hdi , Talbot Matra Murena 2.2(fuel injected ;) )
User avatar
falling-out-with-my-car
Posts: 1928
Joined: 06 Apr 2008, 15:26
Location: Northamptonshire
My Cars: Citroen C5 Aircross 8 speed Automatic, Flair Model with far to many toys and nice comfy armchair like leather seats. ha ha Ive just had a conversation with the car. setting everything up verbally
x 24

Post by falling-out-with-my-car »

Guy,

Have recommended Martin & Pleidies, I shall print this off and pass it on today to my neighbour (Mike).

As I understand it it is a 2.0 litre engine but I translated that to 1.9 not knowing much about the HDi xantia, sorry about that.

I come back if I can get any more information today.

thanks everyone for your help.

regards Nigel.
Citroen Xantia S2 1.9 TD estate 189K soon to be broken for parts Jan 2017 headlamps & radiator fan assembly already spoken for & A 1987 Citroen 2CV6 special just for fun.
New addition Citroen C5 2.0 HDi Exclusive Hatch purchased 09/12/2016 with 83K on the clock.
Pleiades
Posts: 234
Joined: 28 Apr 2008, 21:04
Location: Sunny East Anglia
My Cars:
x 1

Post by Pleiades »

Hi Nigel.

I couldnt find your number to call you back so here goes with my daft idea.

If you lift the back seat and remove the circular cover for the tank top, you will find 4 wires, the 2 thickest in the middle are for the pump, connect a long piece of twin wire to these and run it through to the front of the car, then connect them to a light bulb.

Now when you switch on the ignition, the pump will run and you will hear it buzz, as soon as the priming is over the pump will stop buzzing and the light will go out, as soon as the engine is running the light will come back on, if at any time during the journey, the engine stops, check the bulb. I would say that if the bulb goes out when the power goes, the pump is the problem.

Simple but it should work more precise than any computor gizmo.

Regards
Martin.
User avatar
falling-out-with-my-car
Posts: 1928
Joined: 06 Apr 2008, 15:26
Location: Northamptonshire
My Cars: Citroen C5 Aircross 8 speed Automatic, Flair Model with far to many toys and nice comfy armchair like leather seats. ha ha Ive just had a conversation with the car. setting everything up verbally
x 24

Post by falling-out-with-my-car »

Martin,

Thanks for that, we shall give it a try. sounds pretty good.

I guess the pump does run whilst the engine is running to keep the system pressurised then?

regards Nigel.
Citroen Xantia S2 1.9 TD estate 189K soon to be broken for parts Jan 2017 headlamps & radiator fan assembly already spoken for & A 1987 Citroen 2CV6 special just for fun.
New addition Citroen C5 2.0 HDi Exclusive Hatch purchased 09/12/2016 with 83K on the clock.
jgra1
(Donor 2021)
Posts: 4625
Joined: 27 Nov 2005, 19:07
Location: Kent / Susssex
My Cars: 2010 C5 X7 2.0 hdi 160 exc auto
MG TF 135
Boxer II 2.2 camper conversion
BMW R1200RT
BMW K1300 R
Honda V F R 800 5thG / MT500 Armstrong
x 39

Post by jgra1 »

yep Nigel..
LP pump should be on all the time.

John
MikeT
Posts: 4809
Joined: 11 Jun 2007, 16:17
Location: Christchurch, Dorset. UK
My Cars: 2005 C5restyle 1.6HDI 16v 110hp VTR Estate
2008 C5 X7 1.6HDI VTR+ Saloon
x 231

Post by MikeT »

I don't know if you're aware of this (I just speed-read the thread) but I've read some HDi lift pumps are prone to failure in a nasty way - they disintegrate and scatter lovely glitter (metal filings) all around the fuel system :evil:

If it's left to circulate, it can ruin the expensive parts so well worth checking ASAP. I think it's just a matter of looking in the filter housing? Personally, I wouldn't take the risk of running/driving it anymore (unless it's under warranty) if I owned that car with those symptoms.
User avatar
Old-Guy
Posts: 1798
Joined: 11 Sep 2008, 12:08
Location: Gloucestershire
My Cars: 2011 Grand C4 Picasso VTR+ 1.6HDi in Kyanos Blue
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
x 17

Post by Old-Guy »

To clarify:

the Low Pressure pump in the tank is effectively a fuel-lift pump to provide a continuous flow of fuel at constant (lowish) pressure via the main filter to the inlet side of -

the High Pressure (injection) pump.

Both pumps run all the time the engine is running.
2011 Grand C4 Picasso VTR+ 1.6HDi in Kyanos Blue
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - after 11 years now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
User avatar
falling-out-with-my-car
Posts: 1928
Joined: 06 Apr 2008, 15:26
Location: Northamptonshire
My Cars: Citroen C5 Aircross 8 speed Automatic, Flair Model with far to many toys and nice comfy armchair like leather seats. ha ha Ive just had a conversation with the car. setting everything up verbally
x 24

Post by falling-out-with-my-car »

Thanks everyone thus far this should keep us busy for a while.

I will check the fuel filter for any signs of metal.

I managed to have a chat with Mike (my neighbour) yesterday he says that the car starts and runs perfectly fine then whilst driving the engine cuts out completely.

apparently there is no sensation of fuel starvation no kangerooing or jolting the engine just quits completely out of the blue when it feels like it.

sometimes trying to start the car again fails its almost as though the whole car is dead, turn the key and nothing happens at all.

Now not knowing any thing much about HDi's shouldn't the starter at least turn the engine over?

waiting two or three mins usually alows you to restart the engine everything comes back to life, sounds more complicated than just a fuel pump to me, unless the pump failing shuts down everything for a few mins whilst something resets.

strange. appolagies for not knowing all at the start Mike has heart problems at the moment and I didnt want to stress him out to much.if at all.

regards Nigel
Citroen Xantia S2 1.9 TD estate 189K soon to be broken for parts Jan 2017 headlamps & radiator fan assembly already spoken for & A 1987 Citroen 2CV6 special just for fun.
New addition Citroen C5 2.0 HDi Exclusive Hatch purchased 09/12/2016 with 83K on the clock.
Post Reply