Berlingo 1.9d, Is it the gearbox or the clutch.

BryanB · Post by **BryanB** » 01 Aug 2009, 14:44

Hi, My 03 Berlingo has just passed 100,000 miles. It has developed a scraping sound just like a clutch release bearing on the way out. What is causing doubt though is that it only occurs when the clutch is dipped in gear.
Stationary or coasting in neutral when clutch is dipped = no sound.
Could this be a gearbox problem? I've no idea how long it's been happening as we always drive with the radio on, which masks it completely.
Having consulted Haynes and seeing how difficult access is to the transmission oil plug, I doubt if levels have ever been checked although no leaks are apparent.
I realise we could just keep the radio on and forget it till it develops, but we have a long drive to south of France planned and would prefer to deal with it before leaving (Although I guess French mechanics could be more familiar)
Thanks for reading, any ideas?

jmd · Post by **jmd** » 02 Aug 2009, 16:48

I don't know if this is any help to you, but I had difficulty changing into 3rd gear. (Xantia HDi Year 2000) When I emptied the transmission and refilled with new Transmission Oil the problem was cured. So I would be fearful of transmission oil. It is very difficult to re-fill those gearboxes, assuming that your Berlingo is similar to the Xantia. (I used a marine hand pump to do the job, cost about £20-00) It could be worthwhile renewing the transmission oil, before you start working on the clutch.

Post by **CitroJim** » 02 Aug 2009, 17:55

I fully agree, the first port of call in any transmission problem is the oil and yes, the levels are hard to check so they get overlooked.

At 100K a change is badly overdue.

Be use to use the right oil. Use only a 75W/80 oil expressly for PSA gearboxes. The one offered by Comma is a good one if you cannot get the pukka Total BV stuff.

The oil is critical. Nothing but 75W/80 will do. End of.

BryanB · Post by **BryanB** » 02 Aug 2009, 19:06

Many thanks for both replies, I will take on board a change of oil. However today the scraping noise has happened every time the clutch was depressed, and stopped instantly when it was released. There has been no problem with gear selection. In view of this I feel it more likely to be the release bearing. Any idea what type of release bearing might be fitted please? There was no sign of clicking noise or the rumbling that would be associated with a ball type bearing on it's way out, just a scraping sound, no great volume, but definitely only while my foot was on the pedal.

Post by **CitroJim** » 02 Aug 2009, 19:08

What gearbox is it Bryan? I guess by the inaccssibility of the filler plug it's an ML type.

Does it have the Hydraulic clutch?

BryanB · Post by **BryanB** » 02 Aug 2009, 20:47

Hi Jim, The box is BE 4/5. cable operated clutch. I experienced some grating in the clutch pedal/cable area a while back. A bit of lubrication cured that. The present problem is definitely a noise, nothing felt through the pedal. My background is in aircraft engineering so am used to carefully assessing problems before doing anything.
I was very grateful to have your opinion on my starting problem a while back, you fingered the glow plugs immediately, when I was dithering thinking about valves/ compression etc.
Thanks for helping. BB

Post by **CitroJim** » 02 Aug 2009, 21:33

Sadly Brian, it's not a 'box I'm familiar with but I'd be very much inclined to think the release bearing has come to the end of its life.

It's a very different arrangement to the usual BE3 in having a floating release arm on a balljoint as this picture shows:

I cannot see how exactly the release bearing is attached to the arm but I suspect that very much like the BE3 it is clipped on with rather flimsy plastic clips. If those have given out, the bearing may be floating more than it should and parts of it are rubbing on the diaphragm spring that should not be.

In any case, it's a gearbox off job and if it's the original clutch, it's not done bad.

The good thing is that the BE series of 'boxes with the cable clutches are a whole lot easier to remove than the hydraulically clutched ones that need special tools to replace the release bearing.

For peace of mind, I'd be looking to fix it before France. Even if the French know them better than us, it's not the kind of thing you want happening.

Do enjoy the drive to and the stay in France

BryanB · Post by **BryanB** » 03 Aug 2009, 15:06

Decided this morning to bite the bullet, and approach Mr Clutch. On the way there it got decidedly worse and was obviously the release bearing.(even people waiting at pedestrian crossings noticed.)
Hopefully they will finish the job tomorrow as I'm off to France (In daughter's Espace) and the wife needs the Berlingo in UK.
I asked for the full clutch kit, seems silly not to while the G/box is off. Made the point about grade of oil (That's another £23 sir!)
They reckon about £350 total, seems a bit heavy but daughter has just moved house and the garage is full of furniture so the service pit is out of the question. Probably a good thing as I don't fancy the job anyway.
Thanks again for your input, much appreciated. BB

jgra1 · Post by **jgra1** » 03 Aug 2009, 15:10

ooh that's a bit hefty

unlucky..

I had a realase bearing fall off it's perch as Jim mentioned, it melting and also went through the diaphragm fingers...

in the end I replaced all, although unbeknown to me, the clutch was only 5 months old.. bad fitting by the fitter was my best guess.. a silly design really.. 1.8 Petrol Xantia

good luck
John