suspension
Moderator: RichardW
suspension
general question on suspension,,on 95 m reg xm 2.0 turbo
when car is parked on drive i have noticed that the rear suspension sinks first (totally sunk after about 4--5 hours although the front can take 8 hours plus to lower,,
is this normal (i use the term "normal " loosely when talking about a citroen..)
i just thought that they would sink at the same rate or the front first with it being heavier
i am a citroen newbie trying hard to understand french cars
(my boss is french and i cannot understand his way of thinking) maybe i am just not european enough
when car is parked on drive i have noticed that the rear suspension sinks first (totally sunk after about 4--5 hours although the front can take 8 hours plus to lower,,
is this normal (i use the term "normal " loosely when talking about a citroen..)
i just thought that they would sink at the same rate or the front first with it being heavier
i am a citroen newbie trying hard to understand french cars
(my boss is french and i cannot understand his way of thinking) maybe i am just not european enough
- CitroJim
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Re: suspension
Benny, ther is no understanding French cars! Part of their charmbennyboy wrote: i am a citroen newbie trying hard to understand french cars
I assue an M plate XM would have anti-sink but that does not mean it cannot and will not sink. Generally the rear sinks first because there is less pressure knocking around the rear to begin with and secondly, more places for it to leak away, the brake dosuer for one. The front has more pressure and this tends to snap the anti-sink valves shut faster and more reliably.
As Peter says, if it all works well enough, than best to leave it be. Chasing issues like this can be a bit like chasing rainbows and all for a car that might eventually stay up a bit longer.
As a newbie (we were all there once) the very best bet is to get to know a local who knows hydraulic Citroens well and allow said person to look over the car and teach you all about them. I'll bet there is such a person somewhere local and maybe even a member of this forum.
The first thing to do on any hydraulic Citroen is to time the interval between ticks from the pressure regulator. They should occur no more frequently than every 30s at idle in a healthy system but only start to worry if they occur at less then 10s intervals. A short tick interval suggests a flat accumulator sphere or higher than normal internal leakage somewhere in the system.
Jim
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
regulator tick
thank you all for replying,,
the answers brought up another question
the pressure regulator ticks about every 30 seconds but as it is pressurising itself it squeels fairly loud,,sounds like a slipping belt but it is not,,the only way to stop it squealing is to turn the steering wheel,,even a quarter inch is enough to stop it ,always does it at idle,,hot or cold but very rarely when driving as you are usually moving steering wheel even slightly on the straight
does anyone have any clues as to why it would be doing this,,the sqeal is driving me crazy..
lhm level is spot on
it is green in colour but could it be thin therefore not vacuuming enough or is pump maybe needing replaced clutching at straws here
the pump belt is fine,have tried slackening and tightening it ..noise definately from the pump
does anyone have a remedy to this problem
the answers brought up another question
the pressure regulator ticks about every 30 seconds but as it is pressurising itself it squeels fairly loud,,sounds like a slipping belt but it is not,,the only way to stop it squealing is to turn the steering wheel,,even a quarter inch is enough to stop it ,always does it at idle,,hot or cold but very rarely when driving as you are usually moving steering wheel even slightly on the straight
does anyone have any clues as to why it would be doing this,,the sqeal is driving me crazy..
lhm level is spot on
it is green in colour but could it be thin therefore not vacuuming enough or is pump maybe needing replaced clutching at straws here
the pump belt is fine,have tried slackening and tightening it ..noise definately from the pump
does anyone have a remedy to this problem
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Have you checked the crank pulley which drives the aux belt, if its one of those with a rubber bit in the middle it may be perished causing the crank pulley to slip against itself when under load.
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Past Citroens
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'99 Xantia 3.0 V6 Exclusive (Green Goblin)
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'98 Xantia 1.8 sx auto with LPG
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With regard to your original question, it's easy to check if your car has antisink without getting underneath it. Lift the bonnet, if your hydraulic pump has only one pressure outlet then you don't have antisink. If it has two pressure lines then it's the newer 6+2 pump with only two pistons supplying the suspension and it will have antisink.
Without antisink there are lots of potential leakage points - the brake doseur and height control valve being obvious and major items.
With antisink all the major leakage points are taken out of the equation and you are limited to the suspension units themselves plus the hydractive valve. Leakage from the antisink valve is almost unheard of.
I would agree with previous advice that if the sinking is very slow then leave well alone, but if it becomes bothersome then my suspicion would be one of the suspension units. Once again, relatively easy to check; with the back up on ramps and the engine running, pull off the return line from each unit in turn. Any more than the occasional drop of fluid and you've found your problem.
Derek
Without antisink there are lots of potential leakage points - the brake doseur and height control valve being obvious and major items.
With antisink all the major leakage points are taken out of the equation and you are limited to the suspension units themselves plus the hydractive valve. Leakage from the antisink valve is almost unheard of.
I would agree with previous advice that if the sinking is very slow then leave well alone, but if it becomes bothersome then my suspicion would be one of the suspension units. Once again, relatively easy to check; with the back up on ramps and the engine running, pull off the return line from each unit in turn. Any more than the occasional drop of fluid and you've found your problem.
Derek
1999 XM V6 Exclusive, Black
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1994 XM 2.0 TurboCT estate, green of course: now gone to no3 son
2004 C3 1.6 auto exclusive with Sensodrive - the wife's but she doesn't like it
1994 ZX 1.8i auto - the wife's new baby
Location: Lincolnshire
add on
thank you citronut ,,,my pump has only 2 pipws attached to it...i take it supply and return..so that must mean mine is the older pump which has a v belt ot a ribbed one ,,,,does that seem about right,,,
need to get this sorted as the squeal is getting to me
need to get this sorted as the squeal is getting to me
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- My Cars: 2008 C5 Exclusive Tourer
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD VSX Mk1 Sinker A.K.A Slugmobile 13'
'Old Katy'
previous convictions: totaling 52litres of LHM in one go:
1968 ID19B 'Old Polly' Stellar white
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker Silver
1992 XM 2.0 SEi Turbo Manual Anthracite Grey
1982 CX 20 Pallas 'Old Goldy'
1993 XM 2.1 SD Auto Light blue
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker light Blue
1982 BX 16 TRS 'Cyril' Vallelunga Red
1995 Xantia 1.9 D SX Auto Dark green
1977 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Aphrodite' Regatta Blue
1982 GSA Pallas SE Silver Pearl
1980 CX 2000 Reflex Vallelunga Red
1978 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Prometheus' Midnight blue
1984 BX 14E 'Cecil the slugmobile' Maroon
1987 Fiat Panda 'the mighty panda' - x 98
Hi there, yes, best to determine if your Xm has the anti sink arrangement as being an M reg. it could be either. The Xantia gained anti sink almost exclusively from M reg. onwards but I think the Xm still had the old sinking system for a slightly longer time.
Anyway if it is a 'sinking' type (that is, a PROPER Citroen) then the sinking is all normal and good. In fact an Xm that stays up for 4-8 hours is good news!
PAS BXs, and pre anti sink Xantias also have the FDV valve and make the hiss noise but it's not as loud as on the Xm..
Need to know the sink or non-sink of your car first!
Anyway if it is a 'sinking' type (that is, a PROPER Citroen) then the sinking is all normal and good. In fact an Xm that stays up for 4-8 hours is good news!
-This however, I wonder. If it's a 'sinking' XM then it will be of the type that emits a surprisingly loud hiss noise on occasion that will stop when the steering wheel is moved. It is only the sinking ones that do this as they have a device called a Flow Divider Valve to operated the power assisted steering. This valve makes a loud hiss noise that might be mistaken for a 'slipping belt noise' ?does anyone have any clues as to why it would be doing this,,the sqeal is driving me crazy..
PAS BXs, and pre anti sink Xantias also have the FDV valve and make the hiss noise but it's not as loud as on the Xm..
Need to know the sink or non-sink of your car first!
Graeme M
2008 C5 Exclusive Tourer 2.0 HDi
2008 C5 Exclusive Tourer 2.0 HDi
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- Donor 2023
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- Joined: 26 Dec 2007, 18:10
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- My Cars: 2008 C5 Exclusive Tourer
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD VSX Mk1 Sinker A.K.A Slugmobile 13'
'Old Katy'
previous convictions: totaling 52litres of LHM in one go:
1968 ID19B 'Old Polly' Stellar white
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker Silver
1992 XM 2.0 SEi Turbo Manual Anthracite Grey
1982 CX 20 Pallas 'Old Goldy'
1993 XM 2.1 SD Auto Light blue
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker light Blue
1982 BX 16 TRS 'Cyril' Vallelunga Red
1995 Xantia 1.9 D SX Auto Dark green
1977 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Aphrodite' Regatta Blue
1982 GSA Pallas SE Silver Pearl
1980 CX 2000 Reflex Vallelunga Red
1978 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Prometheus' Midnight blue
1984 BX 14E 'Cecil the slugmobile' Maroon
1987 Fiat Panda 'the mighty panda' - x 98
Re: add on
- Right then, if it's an inlet-outlet pump then it's a 'sinker' and hence, has an FDV valve for the power steering. These cars make a loud hiss-screech noise that is, I'm sorry to say totally normal and healthy. If they don't do this in fact, the FDV or PAS pinion valve (or pump) is duff.bennyboy wrote:thank you citronut ,,,my pump has only 2 pipes attached to it...i take it supply and return..so that must mean mine is the older pump which has a v belt ot a ribbed one ,,,,does that seem about right,,,
need to get this sorted as the squeal is getting to me
What's your thoughts on that?
Graeme M
2008 C5 Exclusive Tourer 2.0 HDi
2008 C5 Exclusive Tourer 2.0 HDi
-
- Donor 2023
- Posts: 1300
- Joined: 26 Dec 2007, 18:10
- Location: Glasgow
- Lexia Available: Yes
- My Cars: 2008 C5 Exclusive Tourer
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD VSX Mk1 Sinker A.K.A Slugmobile 13'
'Old Katy'
previous convictions: totaling 52litres of LHM in one go:
1968 ID19B 'Old Polly' Stellar white
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker Silver
1992 XM 2.0 SEi Turbo Manual Anthracite Grey
1982 CX 20 Pallas 'Old Goldy'
1993 XM 2.1 SD Auto Light blue
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker light Blue
1982 BX 16 TRS 'Cyril' Vallelunga Red
1995 Xantia 1.9 D SX Auto Dark green
1977 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Aphrodite' Regatta Blue
1982 GSA Pallas SE Silver Pearl
1980 CX 2000 Reflex Vallelunga Red
1978 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Prometheus' Midnight blue
1984 BX 14E 'Cecil the slugmobile' Maroon
1987 Fiat Panda 'the mighty panda' - x 98
Having said that, the hiss noise as audible as it is, shouldn't be as high pitched as a squealing belt so perhaps there is a different problem on yours. AFAIK, when the hiss noise goes off, the HP pump is under load feeding both the PAS and the pressure regulator at the same time (still not 100% on the FDV valve's behavior tho) so perhaps the HP belt is slipping during this time. Also check the HP pump itself for duff bearings as these could be squealing like a bitch.
Bring the Xm to the CCC rally tomorrow (Sunday the 19th) at Wood green animal shelter and let us diagnose it for you!
Bring the Xm to the CCC rally tomorrow (Sunday the 19th) at Wood green animal shelter and let us diagnose it for you!
Graeme M
2008 C5 Exclusive Tourer 2.0 HDi
2008 C5 Exclusive Tourer 2.0 HDi
squeal
not had a chance to take pump off yet to check bearing..but i can say it is definately a 2 pipe pump and a V belt..i am now wondering if someone has changed the pump or i just have the last of the v belt model
i have just logged in after working and did not know about the rally at the animal shelter or i would have come along
i have just logged in after working and did not know about the rally at the animal shelter or i would have come along