Automatics, what you got? whats it like?

vince · Post by **vince** » 05 Jul 2009, 08:46

Guys the time is coming nearer for me to get an automatic due to my wife learning to drive in an auto....we will be sharing a car

This i suppose gets me a new project to spruce up

and one to move on

I am interested to know peoples experience of their autos and also fuel economy experienced...i am not opposed to getting a petrol version as there doesnt seem to be much in between some petrol models and non HDi diesels.

What you got? Whats it like to drive? which ones have the better boxes?

Do you know of any good ones possibly coming up for sale?

addo · Post by **addo** » 05 Jul 2009, 10:50

Shane, where are you sweetheart?

I have the AL4 in a Xantia estate. Apart from a problem with harsh 3-2 downshifts under a very specific set of conditions, it drives pretty fine. Economy? Last country tank was 812-odd km, while the last city tank was 542, both on Premium. The poxygen sensor has seen better days, though.

Post by **CitroJim** » 05 Jul 2009, 11:04

Hi Vince,

I only have experience with a V6 and a 4HP20 and I'm totally converted

I just love an automatic.

I guess a V6 is not really learner material though

The AL4 is a good 'box and tougher than the 4HP20 but i have no experience of them other than diagnosing them and observing an oil change. They don't seem to be particularly fault-prone and go on well.

They can be found in the 1.8i 16V Xantia and that should be just about ideal

Featch · Post by **Featch** » 05 Jul 2009, 11:23

I absolutely love my auto XM 2.0 turbo. It's just so relaxing to drive. On long runs it manages about 33 mpg and just miles just fly by. I find it's more economical if I don't use cruise control though. On the other hand, on the rare occasions I use it for work, stop start, round town then this falls down to 19mpg costing me 3 times more than the ZX diesel.

I've changed the brown sludge for oil by frequent partial changes over the last year and it changes really smoothly. I also use an additive, recommended on here, who's brand escapes me at the moment'

A work colleague has a 'lovely' Nissan Micra auto for sale.......

.........OK I'll get my coat.

Sid_the_Squid · Post by **Sid_the_Squid** » 05 Jul 2009, 11:42

Hey Vince,
Tis a shame you need to get rid of your VSX, especially now you have it all fixed and shiny.
I'm in the lucky position to have both an AL4 and a 4HP20 to hand. It’s hard to compare them as the engines their attached to are so different, which I think has a big influence on what their like to drive. Something’s I think are comparable, so here goes.
So quick compare.

The 4HP20 changes gear are smoother. Not to say the AL4 is rough, far from it, but you can notice the AL4 changes where as you rarely notice the 4HP20.
The AL4 is better for crawling in traffic, dose not have the 'confused' issue the 4HP20's seem to suffer from.
The AL4 never releases the engine whilst moving in D, so it seems like a manual gearbox, at first I thought mine was stuck in ‘down hill’ mode, but I’ve seen a few people mention this behaviour on an AL4.

I've previously driven a couple of non electronic autos, i.e. the old skool fully hydraulic, and I hated them, really hated them I think it was the arbitrary gear change points which bugged me, but I really like these 'modern' electronic ones, which can vary their change points. It might not be such an issue for you, The early Xantia’s and XM’s had the old style box’s, in the xantia you can tell straight away, as the gear selector mechanism is totally different, AFAIK the XM one looks the same.

Overall either the AL4 or 4HP20 are good boxes, I've no complaints, I would say though when looking at a cit with an auto box, either get one with low mileage or one with a history of oil changes in the box. My AL4 has done 90k miles on the original oil, I recently did 3 oil changes in 2 months on the AL4, even after the 3rd change the oil was still coming out gray, box still drive great though, but its worrisome to see such dirty oil. In contrast the 4HP20 had a known oil change at 80k miles, and possibly before (service history lost before 80k) as when I changed its oil it was quite golden.

Sealed for life… yer, if life is 100,000 miles.

That’s my experience with Autos, I’ve driven a few Jap auto’s to, the electronic ones are all fairly similar.

As for mpg, I get 27mpg from the V6, thats cross town daily commute, not done any motorways yet, and about 25mpg from the 1.8 on LPG, I would imagine petrol would be 2~3mpg higher, but I must point out the 1.8 has an intermittent fault on the MAP sensor which have not yet fixed so that’s probably screwing up the mpg figs.
Get a V6 Vince, you know you want to. One just sold on ebay for £499

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0355165817

Although in saying that, here’s a nice AL4 example http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0408156716

Post by **xantia_v6** » 05 Jul 2009, 12:19

I had a very tidy Xantia 2.0 8 valve with the hydraulic non-computerised transmission, and I don't remember it having any particular annoyances, but it was a bit sluggish for me.

I have now got 2 Xantia V6s, and the 4HP20 transmission is very good (except when they die). I would like it to be a bit snappier in sports program (it sometimes takes forever to change down if you momentarily hesitate on the accelerator just before pulling out to overtake).

My Mk2 V6 is probably looking for a good home soon.

You didn't limit the discussion to Citroens, so I will add a comment about my other car, a V12 E-type with a BW12 auto transmisison. This 3 speed transmission is a real dinosaur it was used in Ford V8 trucks and Mustangs in the mid 1960s, and was technically obsolete before Jaguar started fitting it in the 1970s. It is extremely strong and heavy, and upshifts beautifully under all conditions. It does not really do downshifts. There is a full throttle kickdown which works well enough, but other than that you sort of live with the gear you are in. Spirited driving with this transmission would be a disaster, except that the Jag V12 engine (particularly with the 11.5:1 CR HE pistons I have fitted) has so much torque, that gear selection is nearly irrelevent.

Post by **CitroJim** » 05 Jul 2009, 14:16

Vince, I didn't realise this will be farewell to your VSX

Now, there were some late 1.9TD Xantias with an autobox and I presume they had the AL4. Also, but I may be wrong in that previously there was a 1.9NA diesel with an autobox but that would have been the 4HP14 hydromechanical that xantia_v6 speaks of. I can't imagine the performance from that but knowing how well an auto-adaptive 'box does, I reckon a 1.9TD and AL4 should be OK. Perhaps not a road-burner but more than adequate.

They have to be worth a look and can be got for reasonsable sums. Best with service history (of oil changes) or go with someone knowledgeable of the AL4 if you look at one..

Why won't SWMBO contemplate a manual car?

Post by **myglaren** » 05 Jul 2009, 14:22

CitroJim wrote: Why won't SWMBO contemplate a manual car?

You have to re-take your driving test to drive a manual if you have learned and passed in an automatic

DoubleChevron · Post by **DoubleChevron** » 05 Jul 2009, 14:27

Slugomatics suck big time !!! Don't get one .... You WILL regret it !!!!! Make her get a proper manual license. I've had a Xantia and have an XM with a slugomatic.... Bloody horrible.... I'd stick a proper gearbox in it tomrrow if I could.

When it does if it's an AL$ (woops I mean AL4) it's cost 5 times the cars value to repair. If it's the 4HP14/18/20 ... It's only be 3times the cars value..... Not "IF" but WHEN they sh!t themselves.

Wouldn't touch one with a barge pole

seeya,
Shane L.

Post by **CitroJim** » 05 Jul 2009, 16:01

So I take it you're not a fan then Shane

<runs and hides>

Strange that. When I lived in your neck of the woods the only vehicles I ever saw with manual transmissions were utes. Maybe it was a Territorian thing.

The 4HP20 is amenable to repair. I'm sure an AL$ (I like that!) will respond similarly and maybe not even necessasy to remove the engine in cars with the AL4.

Has yours broken then?

vince · Post by **vince** » 05 Jul 2009, 20:32

Thanks for the info guys.....

Firstly im with most of you, i love auto box driving and there is no chance of SWIMBO taking a manual test (ive been through this over and over)

Yes the VSX will have to go, but hey someone will get a nice car

I will look for a TD or a HDi auto i think but i was ideally hoping that someone on here would know if a belting little one hidden away somewhere

What i am not looking forward to is losing the VSX spec. I like the cabin in mine, its a nice place to be and seats are awesome.

I know a new one will need some cleaning up to get it nice and neat, but its just work and not that hard to do.

Oh well....i will keep an eye out for one to pop up

P.s. id love an Xm but i think they will be too big for her and electrically they had their problems.

red_dwarfers · Post by **red_dwarfers** » 05 Jul 2009, 21:09

vince wrote: Yes the VSX will have to go, but hey someone will get a nice car

You're really testing me vince

I'd love a hatchback XUD9 with VSX spec, though I don't think I could part with my first Citroen for a good while yet. Your's doesn't have air con does it? Really suprises me that with my lowly LX

Someone WILL get a fantastic car!

Sid_the_Squid · Post by **Sid_the_Squid** » 05 Jul 2009, 21:16

Here you go Vince, Malcolm has already found the car for you
http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... 169#187169

addo · Post by **addo** » 05 Jul 2009, 21:31

I admit to steering Shane over for this very thread.

His wife actually loves the auto gearboxes, he says - I suppose it's that "opposites attract" thing.

asav · Post by **asav** » 05 Jul 2009, 22:20

AUTO!!...so glad i got 1, ok mpg a bit low, but hey its a much improved daily drive into london for me, I'm a different person for it, nowhere near as hot headed...the added additon of aircon may play a part in that also....aint in no rush to drive a manual anytime soon.