C5 Suspension Supports

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boristhespie
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C5 Suspension Supports

Post by boristhespie »

Okay the saga of my car continues.

The banging from the rear the garage has said that they "think" that it is the suspension support. I'm not sure but I recall someone mentioning this is the trailing Support arm.

They have quoted £340 for replacing it. £76 for the parts (I couldnt get the part numbers but there were a few including bushes).

And £264 for labour.

I had to pass on a 112000 service at £340 because of cash problems.

I have just paid £240 for a crankshaft pulley.

I need new brake blocks and door handle and now this.

The advice I need is...

would this job be something only a Citroen garage could undertake?

I ask because I have read somewhere that the suspension needs to be reset.

do you need to have both sides done at the same time?

I have been told that if this has gone on for a long time there may be damage to the Suspension tube.

There must be. How mcuh would that cost!!!!

I'd be grateful for any advice regarding this specific problem as we are skint. Our boilers just went too.
Last edited by boristhespie on 11 Jun 2009, 23:01, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by vince »

Hi Boris,

The best advice i can give you is to call a Citroen independant specialist and run the symptoms by them. I had a guy in the other day with one who had been told that he needed a complete new back axle and had been quoted circa £600 ish :shock:

Needless to say he was happier when i managed to negotiate an all in price of circa £150 to repair the problem he was having (rear arm bearings) with a Citroen independant specialist i had on the books.

With hydraulic cars dont mess about with garages who dont specialise in Citroens....the labour will be wild and they often dont know the proper causes of noises....

If you dont know of any good garagaes up your way then call GSF Glasgow, they should be able to help you out :wink:

Good luck pal :)
1993 Citroen xm 2.1td, silver/grey, bowling ball wheel trims, 210k and climbing...
boristhespie
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Thanks

Post by boristhespie »

Phoned up a citroen specialist. However there were a couple of things I need to ask.

One my car as far as I am aware is a C5 HDi 110BHP LX

Does this have Eolys, cause the guy said that would have to be replaced.

I thought only 2.2 had Eolys.

Also, he asked if my C5 had hydraulic suspension.

Are there C5s without hydraulic suspension?

He also mentioned replacing the CAT in a service. Would I need to do this? 112k

Re suspension I was quoted from another £250 instead of the £340-50 of yesterday. Some difference!
Last edited by boristhespie on 23 Jun 2009, 10:45, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by myglaren »

What year is your car. The earlier ones have no FAP/EOLYS (mine hasn't)

Only the latest C5s have non-hydraulic suspension and then only the lower models.

Cat won't need replacing unless it is clogged, mainly caused by pottering around in town and never getting the car up to temperature for appreciable periods. A good long reasonably fast run (around 500 miles) should clear the cat and cost a lot less than replacing it.

How 'specialist' are they, 'cause they sound rather clueless to me.

Did you see vince's advice to another member in Scotland to contact their local GSF for advice on which independant specialists to use. I think maybe you should do the same.
boristhespie
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Post by boristhespie »

This was a garage recommended to me here. I looked them up and they say they are Peugeout and Citroen specialists and yet, yes my alarm bells started going when he asked a few questions which I thought he should have known. I know nothing but even I wondered as to how "specialist" they are.

My car is 2002.

I looked at GSF website but I thought they were only parts suppliers, didn't realise they could recommned a speciailist. I will give that a try.

I did find one other promising garage. French Cars (see website) who I assume would know what they are doing. The problem being they are far away and want my car overnight.

They did quote £250 for the job which is a 100 quid saving on the dealer price. Does anyone have any experienc of these guys.

http://frenchvehicleservices.co.uk/links.php
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Post by myglaren »

Couldn't say one way or the other regarding French Vehicle Services. They are saying all the right things on the website but it would likely be a web designer that came up with the bulk of that. To counter that there is a glaring error there that should have been picked up by the proofreader.

If I were you I would trawl through the websites they display on the homepage and see what, if any, experiences the members have had with them.

You may be lucky and find someone in your area that can vouch for them from personal experience.

The GSF and similar businesses deal directly with the mechanics and in many cases know them personally, they also get a lot of feedback about who is good and who isn't, so they are in a decent position to direct you to a reliable garage.
Not as good as someone's personal recommendation who has used a garage for some years but in the absence of that then a good second.
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Post by boristhespie »

GSF only deal with Voltswagon around Dundee. I spelt that wrong. So they couldn'y help.

Having a trawl about still.

OKay updates: Belmont Stirling (Citroen main dealer) Price???

Just a snip at only £712.21.


Ye canna mak it up.

French Vehice Services said that They will "try and make it less than the £250 quoted" I like that outlook in life.

That said they did mention that the only problem could be getting the rear caliper off. WORRYING given that last year the front calipers crumbled to dust (Not joking) when replacing breakpads. Fingers crossed.

Okay so now French Vehicle Services phone to say it will be £300 and he ordered the parts before okaying that with me.

But I have a Garage in Perth quoting £220. They want to see the car as always £50 and then will have me locked in for the parts, as always. Quite frankly I am fed up with garages.

I will update you. Waiting for more quotes.
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fROM BAD TO WORSE

Post by boristhespie »

Okay so saw citroen guy in next town. Seemed okay. HOWEVER mentioned that the bearings could be least of my worries if the trailing arm has worn.

This would then need a new arm. Which in turn may need new ABS sensor if fused on. This all adding up to £800

Then the time it may take weeks for part with no car in that time.

I am meant to be off to France in 2 weeks or so.

Really at wits end.

I have been driving about on this for around 3 years so must be worn. Lost total faith in garages since it has been in regarding this 6 times with no joy. All are nice but don't really deliver.

May just chance it to France.

Don't really know what to do.

May just buy a backend.

May justy get rid of C5, don't want to but...
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Post by addo »

Every car accrues costs related to wear and tear. If it costs you less to run one year than another, it's just that the expenses haven't presented yet.

There's a long way between £800 and buying another car you can say with 100% certainty will cost less over the coming three years.

A good garage will usually - by prior arrangement - put the car on a hoist for these sort of problems while you are there, and point out (demonstrate) the defective areas. Alternatively, would the problem be suitable for diagnosis and repair in France?
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Post by boristhespie »

Re France, it is what we are thinking as it is more the timescale than cost which is the issue right now.

Last year the french trip cost £1500 for the car after the calipers crumbled to dust.

The reason I am disenchanted is that over the last 3 years this has been in dealer garages 6 time for this banging.

Twice we paid for a new antirollbar on front, despite noise coming from back. An uneccessary expense.

The dealer has just now said that the noise maybe coming from the rear trailing arm,

[something I asked them to check for when it was in last year

They ruled it out and charged me 200 quid.

How does it change now?

6 times at huge cost for the same problem which was never rectified.

Now rather than merely changing the bearings, had they got it right at the time, we may need a whole new unit, which I am told may take weeks to get.

If so we wont be going to visit family abroad which in itself is hundreds of quid. .

Sorry for the winge. It's just frustration. Re the car, £1500 here and there certainly adds up. Had a laguna which the timing belt went £1500 then weeks later the turbo £1500. I got rid of it and got this C5.[/i]

While the fact that the first two times it was put into the garage for the banging it was still under warranty.
Last edited by boristhespie on 23 Jun 2009, 10:48, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by svesey »

To replace rear trailing arm bearings on a C5 without interfering with the hydraulics.
This works by disconnecting the link between the anti roll barand the rear height corrector. The height corrector is left at the position it would be at if the car were at full height. The engine is then started and the lowest suspension height position is selected using the centre console buttons. switch off the ignition. The system allows all the LDS fluid to return from theresr suspension to the reservoir.
1.Loosen the rear wheel studs slightly.
2.Jack the rear of the car and support the car on axle stands or raise the car on a lift leaving the rear wheels hanging.
3.Disconnect the height corrector link ball joint at the anti roll bar end by levering it off. Make sure that the height corrector remains at the position it was at while it was still connected. If it is marked with a tippex pen it will be easier to know the position (this is to fool the suspension computer)

4.Start the car and use the centre console buttons to select the LOWEST suspension position. when the lowest position shows on the dash stop the engine again and switch off the ignition.
5. Lower the car to the ground or jack up the rear wheels. This will force all the fluid out of the suspension cylinders and back to the reservoir.
6. Disconnect the Battery. (prevents fluid being pumped back into the rear suspension)
7.Raise the car again. There should be no pressure left in the rear suspensions and it should be possible to lift up the rear wheels without resistance.
8.Remove the rear wheels.
9.Remove the anti roll bar (2 torx bolts each side)
10. Remove the ABS sensors. (there is a connector over the fuel tank if they are seized into the rear arm)
11. Disconnect the brake pipes where they meet the flexible pipes. It is a good idea to have got a nut (from the local auto factor about 50 cent) and a small screw or small ball bearing to block the end of the flexible pipe to stop all the fluid from leaking away. You can also use a short bit of brake pipe from the local scrap yard 3 cm is enough clinch over the end to seal it. It is not a good idea to let any modern braking system run out of fluid because of the difficulties in bleeding afterwards.
12 Remove the R clip 4 from the knuckle joint where the suspension cylinder connects to the rear arm and pull out the joint.

Image

13. Remove the bolt and nut retaining the rear arm and take out the arm.
14 Using a small(ish) flat screwdriver carefully prise out the spacer 10 and the seal 9 to reveal the bearings 7.
15 There will be one thin spacer shim 8. This is important and will have to be reused.

Image


16 The outer bearing cups can be driven out from opposite sides (probably destroying the plastic tube 6) or can be pulled out if suitable tools are available. A rear arm repair kit can be got from GSF for the BX. The following parts are the same Bearings 7, Seals 9 and plastic tubes 8. The bolt 11, Steel spacer tube 12 and spacers 10 are different.
17 Replace the bearings packing everything with plenty grease. replace the seals 9. Replace the spacer tube 12, shim 8 and collars 10
18 Replace and reconnect all in reverse order.
19 Bleed the brakes
20.Replace the wheels
21 Reconnect the battery (wait for several minutes before introducing the key to the ignition or it may be rejected by the immobiliser)
22 The suspensions will pump up.
23 Start the engine and set the suspension height using the console buttons
boristhespie
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WOW!

Post by boristhespie »

Wow Thanks for that. Not sure what all the bits are but knowledge is power.

I took it to a small local specialist garage today. They had a look. They were nice.

They couldn't see anything wrong in terms of skiwiff wheels or wear on tyres but they did hear the noise and they think it is coming from inside the arm. The bearings being the main suspect.

Have to say it is a lot worse since I got it back. Guess they pushed and pulled.

Okay so what was said.

Could replace bearings. HOWEVER as said before there may be wear in the hole where the bearings were and as such it may be impossoble to replace bearings without replacing the arm.

I suspect this given the time this has been ongoing.

So they are pricing for bearings AND for the arm.

I NEED SPEEDY ADVICE.

The guys said that the arm is attached to a aluminium tube which runs the length of the car and that it may be fused. Therefore if they use heat it may break this tube which would have to be replaced at huge cost.

I don't like heat and aluminium. Neither should they???

It is extremely worrying that I could end up with a knackered car. They sound like they are covering themselves.


Either way we are looking at a significant cost.

Is this banging dangerous?

I was told by someone else to buy a subframe from a scrappy but are all C5s the same and what is the likelyhood knowing my luck that this would have the same fault too.

Advice would be greatly appreciated on these conclusions.

It was hinted at that I would be cheaper buying another car. But I like my C5 and don't want to give up that easily. To think my car could be buggered cos of a few quids worth of bearings.
Last edited by boristhespie on 23 Jun 2009, 10:50, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by fred1 »

Hi,

At your mileage I think it is unlikely that it has gone on for long. They usually fail between about 120-180k on xantias and these are the same bearings (although the spacer tube and long bolts are different.) So I do not think you will have damaged the arms.

I had my C5 done in March by my local garage -I supplied the bits, diagrams and instructions and they provided the manpower and tools. I was planning to do it myself come the spring but it was getting worse. Cost about £280 all in parts and labour.

Mine was at about 140K and had been showing signs for about 6 months. The arms were fine with only a little wear/marking at the outer ends.

Fortunately the ABS sensors came free ok or they can be a bit of a problem - the in line connectors are not as accessible as on the xantia so cutting and remaking the leads is the only option if they are stuck!

Cheapest way to get the bits was - Xantia kit from GSF and the C5 bolts and spacers from Cit dealer. I have posted pictures and parts details etc on the C5-L website in the "files" area.

Regards

John
boristhespie
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Post by boristhespie »

Thanks for getting back. ONly problem with mine is that it has been making noises for 3 years!

My concern is whether to get rid of the car or chance opening it up.

There is no play in the wheel apparently. It's a chance I guess. But I would have thought after 3 years it may be worn.

Where is the C5-L website?

What does anyone else think?
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Post by CTR »

Hi!

The rear bearing replacement is costly if done in the garrage - you just have to live with that.
The only possibility - do it yourself. But you 'll need some basic knowlege and "right" hands and some tools.

It is possible to change the bearing without detatching ABS sensor - do it under the car carefully. But garrage will not like to do it that way.

There are some pictures (so you can see the amount of work):
http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... highlight=

From the other point of view - if wheels are wearing evenly, and the only problem is the noise - it should be the bearing only and arms are ok. The arm are still on C5 (compared to aluminium on XM) so it is much more strong in this sence...

Btw. usually you even pass MOT with broken arm bearing...
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