XM Cruise Control

Post by **Peter.N.** » 31 May 2009, 08:40

Yep, the Hillman Minx had one!

lolingram · Post by **lolingram** » 31 May 2009, 08:56

I am not saying that manual is better than anything else, if I had to drive in a city I would probably welcome an auto, but this forum is mainly about DIY servicing and repairs and I don't think that there are many people on here that would tackle an auto box.

If you have an auto of little worth, gearbox failure will write it off, and they are not renowned for long life, a manual box will probably last the life of the car, even if it developes a fault it is usually still driveable.

My personal reasons for not running auto's, apart from the reliability problems, are poor efficiency giving increased fuel consumption and not allowing you to drive the way you want to.

Good to see that this has develpoed into a serious (and interesting) discussion.

Without any doubt, an auto box will eventually require a refurb, long before the demise of an otherwise still excellent motor car. As Peter N. says, most manual boxes go on with no repairs required for the life of the vehicle.

It is NOT true to say that an auto cannot be driven the way one might wish - all that is required is the patience to learn hpw to correctly apply one's skills in this respect. Few learn to master left foot braking in order to maximise the extrem comfort afforded.

Old style automatics are less frugal - mainly due to hydraulic pumping losses in the torque converter, but the auto box in my son's Audi A4 Diesel V6, has no less than 8 (yes eight) speeds, full manual overide, NO hydraulics, and fuel consumption is extremely frugal - often better than 42 MPG in a heavyish car with 200+ bhp!

Using this car on the mainland, together with Cruise Control is simply a revelation... things change.

I run a manual for the reason Peter mentioned - can't afford to repair an auto!

Post by **Peter.N.** » 31 May 2009, 09:06

My criticism of the way an auto drives is to do with revs. One of the reasons that the 2.1 XUD is so economical is that it will pull well at very low revs, in normal driving I rarely exceed 2000 except on the motorway where 2400 rpm equates to 70 mph, it will pull from about 1200. This style of driving frequently gives me in excess of 50 mpg. Just not possible with the auto box, up changes are made at about 3000 rpm, not only inefficient but noisy.

Sid_the_Squid · Post by **Sid_the_Squid** » 31 May 2009, 09:36

Just not possible with the auto box, up changes are made at about 3000 rpm, not only inefficient but noisy.

Depends on the gearbox and driving style, I'm a fairly relaxed driver, xantias are well suited to me (or is it vice versa) anyway in the V6 if you drive like me the box adapts, it changes gear at around 2000 rpm, unless I put my foot down does not rev high at all, it pulls from 1000 rpm (I love the V6

).

The AL4 in my 1.8, well thats a different story...

My point being don't think that just because one type of autobox/engine combo behaves a certain way, that they all will.

DickieG you are so right about the 'new technology' thing, remember the BMW "revolutionary" swiveling headlights a few years back, that made me laugh, even a youg'un like me knows the DS did it in the 60's

addo · Post by **addo** » 31 May 2009, 09:47

Wasn't the Minx an electromagnetic clutch release?

A correctly set BVH is pretty swish; it does remind of the DSG but more laid back (although not lacking in response). However, they really did need a fifth gear!

The AL4 (as an example of adaptive autos), I find pretty useful once you tune in to the non-negotiable parts of its operation. I can flow with most suburban traffic and keep the calipers cool enough to touch.

Info for Steve - not contrarian, just a snippet - the documented average commute in Sydney is 15km each way, through suburban traffic. We do sell a lot of auto cars these days; that balance shifted during the eighties I think. The "wide open spaces" idea is largely a notion; I am priveleged to be both aware of it and able to enjoy this aspect of our country.

Cheers, Adam.

lolingram · Post by **lolingram** » 31 May 2009, 09:52

Current Xantias
'98 1.8 sx auto with LPG (la vache)

Pourquoi 'la Vache' Sid?

Sid_the_Squid · Post by **Sid_the_Squid** » 31 May 2009, 10:56

Pourquoi 'la Vache' Sid?

hehe, I wondered when someone was going to ask,
Well there are two reasons why the car is call the cow or just cow, one is the fact my my partner likes cow pattern seat covers, and the other more elaborate and humorous reason is related to the Monty pythons film 'the holy grail'. In particular scene 8 where Arthur and his knights approach a castle owned by a French lord.
For those who don't remember or have never seen the film, here is a handy script to jog your memories, or as a reference, heres a youtube link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V7zbWNznbs, and an script version http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/mphg/mphg.htm#Scene%208.
The French don't take kindly to Arthur demands, so using the immortal line "Fetchez la vache", subsequently catapulting a poor cow at king Arthur, I found this very amusing, and "Fetchez la vache" has become an expression which just stayed with me.

So how does this relate to my car?
Well in the winter each morning I get the car(s) started for us to go to work, with a nice warm defrosted car, as my partner leaves before me I end up 'fetching' the car for her, it was not long before the connection to getting the car joined to "Fetchez la vache"...

As a side note my French is not very good is Fetchez an actual word?

Sorry all for the way off topic post, but I hope you find it amusing.

lolingram · Post by **lolingram** » 31 May 2009, 11:05

So how does this relate to my car?
Well in the winter each morning I get the car(s) started for us to go to work, with a nice warm defrosted car, as my partner leaves before me I end up 'fetching' the car for her, it was not long before the connection to getting the car joined to "Fetchez la vache"...

As a side note my French is not very good is Fetchez an actual word?

No, but bloody good Franglais mate - conjugation est bien parfait!

Post by **Peter.N.** » 31 May 2009, 12:51

My experience with auto's is limited to the Citroen XM boxes, so I am probably over generalising with my criticism, but as they are the only cars I drive and intend to, that's as far as my motoring world extends.

The Minx possibly was electromagnetic although I seem to remember vacuum coming into the equasion somewhere. I only have my original '51 Minx manual, to early.

The 54 Minx had a push button starter! Sound familier?

FrenchLeave · Post by **FrenchLeave** » 31 May 2009, 18:05

The Standard eight also had an electromagnetic clutch, disengaged by a switch on the gear lever that was operated as you clutched (Whoops!) the lever to change gear. If I remember right, from the days when Motor/Autocar used to explain how new technical bits worked, the clutch contained magnetic particles - I suppose iron filings or something similar - which went solid when magnetised.

A strange thing I've noticed is how yesteryear's car designers used incredibly complicated methods to achieve particular ends, which are solved by much simpler methods nowadays. Desmodromic valve gear - the stuff of nightmares

Derek

Post by **myglaren** » 31 May 2009, 18:15

My dad had a Standard 8 and I had a Hillman Minx (my first car - if you could call it that).

I was friends with a woman with a Super Minx and she just had a normal clutch IIRC.

Neither had anything resemling an electric clutch - may have been model dependent of course.

Geraint · Post by **Geraint** » 31 May 2009, 19:14

Hi all
Thanks for all your interesting posts -1st the cruise control now works - cleaned the switch contacts. The point about the Auto Gearbox on this XM is correct - there is a wide range between the gears, only a 4 speed box and top engages quite high. On my previous car a 2.3 Ford Sorpio with a 5 speed auto box with o/d in top, had a fluid change that was smooth and hardly felt. The XM took some getting used to.

Unfortunatley due to an illness and surgery in the UCL London, an auto box is more comfortable for driving in London and the suburbs, but I did test drive a 2.5 TD manual, which had a very light clutch and nearly bought it but it also had 180K and no previous clutch change - I let that go. If the clutch is light I do not have a problem but on cars which have a heavy movement it's to much for me over the day.

Life of the car

On the Scorpio I changed the engine oil every 4k and every other change i.e at 8k ,I also changed the gearbox oil and fitted a new pan filter. Most people rarley change the oil in auto boxes and if you check them, the oil look dark brown and burnt. Old oil and over heating kills the boxes, an extra oil cooler is always a plus.

I have already done some work on this car and will continue to change the Autobox oil very 8k and also clean the filter - if I get this car up to the same milage as the Scorpio (153K) that's 13 years driving for me.

Thanks for all your post - loved reading every one of them

Geraint ( if I work out how to post pictures I will show work in progress)

lolingram · Post by **lolingram** » 31 May 2009, 19:25

Life of the car

On the Scorpio I changed the engine oil every 4k and every other change i.e at 8k ,I also changed the gearbox oil and fitted a new pan filter. Most people rarley change the oil in auto boxes and if you check them, the oil look dark brown and burnt. Old oil and over heating kills the boxes, an extra oil cooler is always a plus.

I have already done some work on this car and will continue to change the Autobox oil very 8k and also clean the filter - if I get this car up to the same milage as the Scorpio (153K) that's 13 years driving for me.

Thanks for all your post - loved reading every one of them

Geraint ( if I work out how to post pictures I will show work in progress)

Auto box life is almost always determined by the wear on the epycyclic change clutches. Brown oil is an indication of this. Ergo, full power changes will accesserbates this wear. The rest of the gubbins lasts for ever normally.

IMHO, your frequent services are more than adequate...

Post by **Peter.N.** » 31 May 2009, 19:58

I would agree with Lol, infrequent oil changes are a recipe for disaster with auto boxes so you are doing all you can. If you are driving it mostly in traffic it shouldn't get to hot.

I quite appreciate why you drive an auto, I have arthritis in my knees and clutches can sometimes be painful. The 2.5 clutch is exceedingly light, being hydraulic, the 2.1 can be very heavy, although my most recent purchase which recently had the clutch replaced, is almost as light as the 2.5, when I first drove it I thought there was something wrong with it! But no, its fine, so I shall be using that one soon.

The 2.1 is by far the cheapest engine to maintain and most reliable, the last 2.1 XM I sold had covered 292k miles and was still going strong although the clutch would slip if pushed hard. I change my engine oil every 5k, I dont use expensive oil, the cheapest that meets the spec, less than £10. but it makes the engines last.

Enjoy your car.

Peter.N.

addo · Post by **addo** » 31 May 2009, 22:44

The funny thing about motor oil, is how people will defend their choice so emotively. Yet in reality - how many cars end their lives due to motor oil related issues?

I was friends with a woman with a Super Minx and she just had a normal clutch IIRC.

That begs the question - did she handle well in the rough, or respond best to a gentle throttle?

RRP for a new replacement AL4 in Australia is about $12400 (GBP£6100) - that would put most people off. However, if endeavours like Jim's 4HP18 rebuild are successful we have the template for autobox repair becoming quite feasible for the advanced DIY - and certainly no cause for panic.

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