Steering bias, information ideas sought.

[cachaciero]

I have now got around to resolving the last defect on my C5 purchased back in February, which is the fact that it pulls ever so slightly to the left, not seriously but just enough for one to be always aware of it, generaly at a speed of 50 mph it requires "two fingers" worth of pressure to hold it straight, the steering wheel left to it's own devices will veer to the left by about 10 degrees.

When I purchased the car it didn't have two tyres the same, the fronts have been replaced and are as it were a matched pair, this made the situation a little better. I've had the tracking done on a laser set up again very small improvement but not a cure.

As far as I can see from service docs that came with the car the previous owner had had this problem for some 20K miles so it's not a new problem.

I wondered if it could be brakes particularly as at very low speed applying brakes the wheel turns even more to the left however I have no firm conclusion and no other evidence of dragging brakes, like hot wheels hubs.

The car had a new MOT in Feb so I am assuming that there was no major play in any of the steering / suspension components, there is no major lumps or knocks now I've got the suspension sussed.

Out of interest can anyone with a Lexia tell me what the steering wheel angle is at straight ahead this is on the hydractive parameters pages, mine says 128 degrees which seem a bit odd even odder when I start recording parameters the graphical playback seems to think that straight ahead should be 0.

Thoughts anyone balljoints? lower wishbone bearings? mismatch between rack position and steering valve?

Comments, thoughts much appreciated.


Cachaciero.

2001 2.2Hdi C5 Exclusive Estate.
1998 XM 2.1TD
1995 XM 2.1 TD (Deceased)
1988 CX 2500 T2 (Deceased)
1975 CX2400 Pallas(Deceased)
19??? GSA Club (Deceased)

[Clogzz]

Is the car right hand drive with camber compensated for driving on the left ?
Does laser tracking measure caster angles ?
Can it simulate drag when in motion ?
Are the strut tops rubbery like on the Xantia ?

Any misalignment, except caster, will cause tyre wear.
Misalignment of the rear can cause torsion that shows up at the front.
Someone driving behind you may be able to see if the car is crabbing.

[mooseshaver]

This may be a stupid suggestion, but trackrods?
Mine is awaiting one, and at the moment the steering wheel is wonky. One of the rods has siezed and needs repalced.
The car does pull a bit to the left.
Also I am told that the previous people who did my tracking altered it wrong so the wheels were pointing the wrong way.

[vince]

My bets are on the steering angle being set wrong or not reset after any work has been done. Alot of places dont have the correct kit to do the job.

Once its sorted then post up what it was so we can all learn.

Vince

[cachaciero]

My bets are on the steering angle being set wrong or not reset after any work has been done. Alot of places dont have the correct kit to do the job.

Once its sorted then post up what it was so we can all learn.

Vince

Hi Vince

By steering angle do you mean tracking / toe-in?

If so I had this done by a local tyre outfit which I have some confidence in. This was done using a laser device to check the track of each wheel, this being done by using a target on the rear wheels. Now in theory the rear wheels are relatively fixed so one would expect that the front wheels would end up being pretty accurately aligned both to the rear wheels and each other.

In reality in the past most cars that I have had that have been badly tracked have either had quite strong self centering (excessive toe in) or had a tendency to wander in the straight ahead position (excessive toe -out), and of course quite heavy tyre scrub although it can take a few miles for that to become obvious.

Now I am not sure that every car will be like that hence the questions.

Mind my gut feel at the moment is that it is something to do with track rod(s) or steering rack.

Cachaciero

[cachaciero]

This may be a stupid suggestion, but trackrods?
Mine is awaiting one, and at the moment the steering wheel is wonky. One of the rods has siezed and needs repalced.
The car does pull a bit to the left.
Also I am told that the previous people who did my tracking altered it wrong so the wheels were pointing the wrong way.

Hi Mooseshaver

Interesting points where is the track rod seized? and does it make horrible graunching noises or is it relatively quiet?

Cachaciero

[cachaciero]

Is the car right hand drive with camber compensated for driving on the left ?
Does laser tracking measure caster angles ?
Can it simulate drag when in motion ?
Are the strut tops rubbery like on the Xantia ?

Any misalignment, except caster, will cause tyre wear.
Misalignment of the rear can cause torsion that shows up at the front.
Someone driving behind you may be able to see if the car is crabbing.

Hi
Laser tracking does not normaly measure caster angles which are anyway in theory fixed unless the car has been walloped hard enough to bend the top strut mount or bottom whishbone / mounts / subframe and there is no evidence of that on this car and the same is true of camber angles.

Drag in motion would have to be done on a rolling road don't own one of those unfortunately.

Cachaciero

[mooseshaver]

Hi Mooseshaver

Interesting points where is the track rod seized? and does it make horrible graunching noises or is it relatively quiet?

Cachaciero

I've not noticed a noise. I don't know where it is sized, do they adjust at more than one point when doing the tracking? The track rod and track rod end were mentioned, and I'm not sure if its both or just one I am getting.
Its getting done saturday afternoon, so will find out then.

[cachaciero]

I've not noticed a noise. I don't know where it is sized, do they adjust at more than one point when doing the tracking? The track rod and track rod end were mentioned, and I'm not sure if its both or just one I am getting.
Its getting done saturday afternoon, so will find out then.

Well it's possible that the adjusting part of the rod has seized in which case there would be no noises just impossible to set the tracking with the steering wheel centered.

On the other hand the ball joints at each end could be partially seized in which case I would expect to see heavier steering forces together with some grinding and graunching sounds as the steering is operated. Have to say I have never seen this but it is a theoretical possibility.

Total seizure of any of the joints would make it impossible to turn the wheel and would put some serious stress into other bits of the suspension / steering rack, you really would notice total seizure of any of the joints on the track rod .

I suspect in your case he is talking about the adjusting bit.

Cachaciero

[MikeT]

If it's any help - my white xantia had a left drift bias which disappeared when we replaced a worn balljoint.

[cachaciero]

If it's any help - my white xantia had a left drift bias which disappeared when we replaced a worn balljoint.

Hi MikeT

Yes very much a help, as ball joints are something I have thought about at 95K and they arn't that expensive to buy don't now how easy to change though in theory looks easy given the right kind of peg spanner but.....

It's even a common part with the Xantia.

Cahaciero

[cachaciero]

Finally got down to having a close look around the front end. First problem, get the wheels off finally had to resort to a 4 ft force multiplier, I would have been well stuffed had I needed to change a wheel on the road.

After much levering of various bits of suspension came to the conclusion that there was no perceptible play in ball joints or drop links. So I decided to play around with the tracking and increase the toe in a little. The LH track rod didn't look like it had ever been moved anyway 1 full turn. RH side had been moved at sometime 2 full turns thats a total of three turns increase of toe-in anybody know what 1 turn represents in degrees?.

Centering is more positive feels less vague there does however still appear to be some LH bias but it maybe less, will see how it goes for a few days.

Cachaciero

[Mandrake]

Opps. Retracted post - wrong model