Dipped beam activates head light washers!

Sid_the_Squid · Post by **Sid_the_Squid** » 24 May 2009, 22:12

Hey all,
Well tried to drive my new V6 at night for the first time about 10 mins ago, and found a weird electrical gremlin, when putting on dip, the head light washers are activated, and won't turn off, just the headlight washers.
I can operate the windscreen washers normally, the headlight washers go off as soon as dipped is switched off (did not even try full beam).

if its relevant, the dash indicator for dip beam does not illuminate, but all the general green dash illuminations are there, oh and the fans do no stay running for the usual few seconds after killing the ignition after running with the AC on.

I'm guessing this must be caused by a 'bad earth' somewhere, any ideas where to start looking?

Thanks

Stempy · Post by **Stempy** » 24 May 2009, 23:31

The headlamp washer timer relay is in the fuse box in the engine bay (well it is on mine). If you have a BOL there is a wiring diagram for the relevant circuit. Pulling the relay should stop it squirting as it wired so that it'll give a timed squirt only when the dipped beam is on when you clean the windscreen. Might be corroded connectors in the engine bay fuse box, be a good place to start anyway.

Sid_the_Squid · Post by **Sid_the_Squid** » 25 May 2009, 12:29

It gets weirder.
Taking your advice, I looked for corrosion on relays or fuses, everything looked nice, I even checked all the grounding wires next to the battery, all very clean.
I found the headlight washer relay, it was the one of the far left in the under bonnet relay section, if i take it out i can use the lights fine.
I changed around relays with some of the fan relays (which also look nice and clean) to test for broken ones, same results no matter what combination. So I decided to remove fuse 'F10' from the under bonnet fuses, this one is labeled 'head light washers', figured its better to remove a fuse than pull a relay, and now the weirdness kicks in. With the fuse removed the headlights work without starting the headlight washers, but the headlight washers also work when the windscreen washers are activated!
How can the headlight washers work, when their fuse is removed?
Insanity?

Upshot is I can use the car as normal, but would really like to understand what is going on here?
Before I have never had an issue with car electrics, I always believed the old 'French cars have rubbish electrics' stereotype was a myth, but this has really hurt my brain.

I don't have a BOL, in fact I've been trying to figure out what a BOL would be, heres my top 3.
1. Books online
2. Brilliant ornithological site
3. Beautiful old lady

Seriously though where can I get one of these 'bols' from?

Post by **myglaren** » 25 May 2009, 12:44

Sid_the_Squid wrote:
I don't have a BOL, in fact I've been trying to figure out what a BOL would be, heres my top 3.
1. Books online
2. Brilliant ornithological site
3. Beautiful old lady

Seriously though where can I get one of these 'bols' from?

Try here
The bitter tangerine is the best one though

Sid_the_Squid · Post by **Sid_the_Squid** » 25 May 2009, 14:51

Post by **myglaren** » 25 May 2009, 14:55

This is what the BOL* actually refers to.
Can be helpful or on the other hand it can just as easily lead you woefully astray.

*Book Of Lies

Stempy · Post by **Stempy** » 25 May 2009, 19:07

I actually have a BOT, which is a genuine Citroen wiring manual, and F10 is the headlamp on information supply to the timer relay. F6 supplies the timer relay power on pin 5 and the switched supply to the pump exits the relay on pin 3. So by removing F10 you are telling the relay that the headlamps are off which should stop it working, so I would say that you have a duff relay.

Sid_the_Squid · Post by **Sid_the_Squid** » 25 May 2009, 20:12

*Book Of Lies

Ahh, would not have guessed that, I have two Haynes manuals for the Xantias, the early one which does not cover the HDi, and the later one which does.
Neither cover the V6 though, I just assumed that everything in the V6 was different, a silly assumption I guess.

so I would say that you have a duff relay.

I'll get some new relays tomorrow, see what happens.

Stempy · Post by **Stempy** » 25 May 2009, 22:18

Remember the washer relay is specific to task and has timer and logic circuitry built in, so standard relays wont do the job. Don't know where you'd get one other than from Citroen or a scrappy.

DickieG · Post by **DickieG** » 25 May 2009, 22:37

The washer relay is also the best part of £30

Sid_the_Squid · Post by **Sid_the_Squid** » 26 May 2009, 12:48

Remember the washer relay is specific to task and has timer and logic circuitry built in, so standard relays wont do the job

Ahh, that might explain the problem, from what I can see the relay which is in the washer relay position is exactly the same as the three ones which control the radiator fans, the pins, the serial numbers and wireing diagram on the side.
I'm suspecing that at some point the correct relay was replaced with this 'standard' one. Looks like a visit to Citroen Hatfield for me this lunchtime.

Thx all.

DickieG · Post by **DickieG** » 26 May 2009, 13:25

The headlight washer relay is a large pink one.

Sid_the_Squid · Post by **Sid_the_Squid** » 26 May 2009, 15:30

Quick update, just come back from Citroen Hatfield where we managed to identify the relay which was required, its certainly not the same as the one I already have in the car, but I did not purchase the new relay this time....
Why?
Because it was £46.67 inc VAT

Still I've got the part number now, should it be needed in the future. its 655551 if anyone is interested.

So I am officially on the lookout for one of these relays, if someone is breaking an exclusive. I'll post in 'for sale & wanted' as well.

Thx for all your help guys.

Stempy · Post by **Stempy** » 26 May 2009, 15:59

Rory Perret is breaking an exclusive with the winter pack so might be worth PMing him.

Sid_the_Squid · Post by **Sid_the_Squid** » 26 May 2009, 16:33

Stempy what's Rory Perret forum alias?, can't find any forum user with that alias.

Thx