ESP/ASR C5

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mooseshaver
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ESP/ASR C5

Post by mooseshaver »

Hi, Does anyone know possible causes for this fault when it is displayed on its own? My car has had some work done on it and after driving at about 60mph it came up. Have taken it back to the Mechanic but his fault reader does not allow him to enter the menu for this section.
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Re: ESP/ASR C5

Post by cachaciero »

mooseshaver wrote:Hi, Does anyone know possible causes for this fault when it is displayed on its own? My car has had some work done on it and after driving at about 60mph it came up. Have taken it back to the Mechanic but his fault reader does not allow him to enter the menu for this section.
Unfortunately No!. The ESP and Brake system are pretty closely tied together and they both use data from the Engine ECU. it really could be a lot of things, depending on the work that has been done it would be worth checking any connectors that may have been disconnected and re-seating as required. After that suggest a trip to somebody with a Lexia.

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Post by mooseshaver »

Drat.
The rear callipers have been removed, cleaned and then put on opposite sides of the car so that there is a flat face to mount them back. One of the wheels has been swapped front to back.
The mechanic did say it could be because it needs a track rod and/or end and so tracking cannot be set right until it is fitted.
Does anyone have a Lexia nearby in Cumbria?
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Post by cachaciero »

mooseshaver wrote:Drat.
The rear callipers have been removed, cleaned and then put on opposite sides of the car so that there is a flat face to mount them back. One of the wheels has been swapped front to back.
The mechanic did say it could be because it needs a track rod and/or end and so tracking cannot be set right until it is fitted.
Does anyone have a Lexia nearby in Cumbria?
A failed track rod end is highly unlikely to bring up any warnings. From what you tell us about the work done I think that the first thing I would check are that the ABS sensors on the rear wheel are connected / not damaged the loss of one of those would almost certainly give you the kind of error message you are getting.

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Post by myglaren »

mooseshaver wrote:Drat.
The rear callipers have been removed, cleaned and then put on opposite sides of the car so that there is a flat face to mount them back.
I don't follow the logic there. If the calipers had been properly refurbished there would hardly be any need to transpose them to the opposite side of the car.
I must be missing something.

As cachaciero says, it is likely damage to sensors or their leads that is responsible.

If you feel like a somewhat experimental fix, you could try the following:
hello all i work in the dealer network and upon reading a lot of the posts you may find this info useful

How to reset all ECU's

this procedure is called a power latch

firstly turn on the ignition not engine running,
open bonnet remove battery positive lead and then turn off ignition.
then touch the positive lead to earth,this powers down all ECU's and resets erasing intermittent faults in the process.then reconnect the battery lead.
if the vehicle doesn't start straight away leave the ignition on for 2-3 mins as it has gone into anti scanning mode.

IMPORTANT PLEASE READ CAREFULLY
upon starting the vehicle DO NOT TOUCH THE THROTTLE allow vehicle to idle until cooling fans cut in to allow the engine ECU to reset correctly and reprogram the learning curve,then drive in all gears up to 4,000 rpm accelerating steadily.

as stated this resets all ECU's so any electrical faults caused by conflict errors in programming will be erased and fixed.if the fault is still evident there is a problem that will need further diagnosis
Blatantly swiped from another forum

One thing that seems to have been omitted from the above is resetting the immobiliser which involves opening the driver's window before doing any of the above and before starting the car (you shouldn't be able to) inserting the spare key in the ignition lock, through the open window (don't open the door) wait half a minute, operate the remote locking a couple of times and check the lock LED is out, then start the engine.
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Post by mooseshaver »

myglaren wrote: I don't follow the logic there. If the calipers had been properly refurbished there would hardly be any need to transpose them to the opposite side of the car.
I must be missing something.
I think they were swapped because there wasn't a flat surface too mount? I wasn't really taking it in.
I shall try the reset procedure tomorrow, I had already tried disconnecting the battery for a bit to see if that worked.
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Post by mooseshaver »

cachaciero wrote:
A failed track rod end is highly unlikely to bring up any warnings. From what you tell us about the work done I think that the first thing I would check are that the ABS sensors on the rear wheel are connected / not damaged the loss of one of those would almost certainly give you the kind of error message you are getting.

Cachaciero
what does an abs sensor look like? It is easy to see myself with no experience, no ramps and a fear of oily things? Would the abs switch off if it was an abs fault? I can go and try skidding across the car park gravel and see if it still comes on.
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Post by cachaciero »


what does an abs sensor look like? It is easy to see myself with no experience, no ramps and a fear of oily things? Would the abs switch off if it was an abs fault? I can go and try skidding across the car park gravel and see if it still comes on.
That's a good question and I'm not sure on the C5. It will have two wires on it that will go to a connector, the sensor itself will likely be screwed into the hub carrier somewhere. I'm sure that somebody else on this list will be able to give you a better idea where to look.

My only concern about the sensor diagnosis was your statement that the fault did not come until 60mph I would have expected the system to detect a failed sensor almost immediately the car started to move, of course the 60 may be coincidence you just happened to be doing 60 when the wire / sensor failed.

If it says that you have ASR (ABS) problem then I would expect that any hard braking will cause the wheels to lock up and skid.

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Post by RichardW »

[i]Blatantly swiped from another forum[/i] wrote:hello all i work in the dealer network and upon reading a lot of the posts you may find this info useful

How to reset all ECU's

this procedure is called a power latch

firstly turn on the ignition not engine running,
open bonnet remove battery positive lead and then turn off ignition.
then touch the positive lead to earth,this powers down all ECU's and resets erasing intermittent faults in the process.then reconnect the battery lead.
if the vehicle doesn't start straight away leave the ignition on for 2-3 mins as it has gone into anti scanning mode.

IMPORTANT PLEASE READ CAREFULLY
upon starting the vehicle DO NOT TOUCH THE THROTTLE allow vehicle to idle until cooling fans cut in to allow the engine ECU to reset correctly and reprogram the learning curve,then drive in all gears up to 4,000 rpm accelerating steadily.

as stated this resets all ECU's so any electrical faults caused by conflict errors in programming will be erased and fixed.if the fault is still evident there is a problem that will need further diagnosis

I'm not sure which dealer network this guy 'works' for but I REALLY wouldn't try this with a BSI equipped car - there is a detailed procedure for removing and refitting the battery to avoid spiking the BSI and corrupting it - and it certainly doesn't involve removing the battery with the ignition switched on, or earthing the +ve terminal! What's the bit about not using the throttle - it would take an HDi several hours to reach fan cut in point - if at all! With a dealer scanner, all faults should be eraseable from the scanner
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Post by wheeler »

The ABS sensors on newer citroens are a bit different to the older types but the pickup is part of the wheel bearing which is a magnetic track, these can pick up metalic dust over time or when something is disturbed & cause incorect speed readings. The tracks are very delicate & need to be cleaned with some brake cleaner (or similar) spray & wiped with a soft cloth. Its worth a try first.
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Post by cachaciero »

wheeler wrote:The ABS sensors on newer citroens are a bit different to the older types but the pickup is part of the wheel bearing which is a magnetic track, these can pick up metalic dust over time or when something is disturbed & cause incorect speed readings. The tracks are very delicate & need to be cleaned with some brake cleaner (or similar) spray & wiped with a soft cloth. Its worth a try first.
Hi Wheeler

That's interesting (and a bit worrying) but as this is an area I have yet to get into it doesn't give me a picture where to look and unfortunately I guess it will be even worse for mooseshaver who has a problem now :-)
What we really need is a photograph of the offending area :-(.
Anybody???

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Post by h2ocooler »

Hi
Reading the original post I have someting to add, On my ABS equipped BMW bike (yes i know its two wheels but same mechanics apply) i had a fault with the ABS, when pulling away the ABS worked perfectly up till 90mph then it would show a fault, if you stopped and reset it no fault till you got to 90 again, turned out to be the rear ABS sensor was too far away from the inductor ring on the disk, at slow speed it was ok but the sensor lost the signal as the wheel rotated faster, after adjusting the gap no problems at all.
By the sounds of it if you mechanic has been playing with the rear brakes get him to check the clearances on the sensors, seems to me that if there was no fault before he touched it then he is responsible for sorting it out.
You might need to get the ECU reset to clear the fault code though.
Rob
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Post by mooseshaver »

h2ocooler wrote:Hi
Reading the original post I have someting to add, On my ABS equipped BMW bike (yes i know its two wheels but same mechanics apply) i had a fault with the ABS, when pulling away the ABS worked perfectly up till 90mph then it would show a fault, if you stopped and reset it no fault till you got to 90 again, turned out to be the rear ABS sensor was too far away from the inductor ring on the disk, at slow speed it was ok but the sensor lost the signal as the wheel rotated faster, after adjusting the gap no problems at all.
By the sounds of it if you mechanic has been playing with the rear brakes get him to check the clearances on the sensors, seems to me that if there was no fault before he touched it then he is responsible for sorting it out.
You might need to get the ECU reset to clear the fault code though.
Rob
I shall mention that to the mechanic when it goes back on Sat for the trackrod.
I don't want to cause trouble with him as he is really great and is better than the dealers around here.
I did just spend about £570 on its 90,000 service with him so I hope there is no problems.
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Post by mooseshaver »

I've tried on gravel and the abs appears to be working, as in it brakes the wheels and then releases then brakes again.
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C3 1.4 HDi 92 SX 52.
Saxo 1.1 East Coast.
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Post by cachaciero »

mooseshaver wrote:I've tried on gravel and the abs appears to be working, as in it brakes the wheels and then releases then brakes again.
Presumably there was no ASR warnings at the time you did the test?

Cachaciero
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