2.0 HDI c5 110bhp Service at 112,500

boristhespie · Post by **boristhespie** » 18 May 2009, 17:48

Okay so I need the car servicing but what with all the other things I simple can't afford the 350 quid it will cost AND probably some problems sorted and I suspect new breakpads fitted.

I was told this service was filter and oil changes. Can someone tell me, a non mechanical type, how easy it is to do some of this myself. I would like to learn and SAVE MONEY as I am very very skint.

With this im mind, how easy is it to cahnge break pads also?

Post by **myglaren** » 18 May 2009, 19:12

Oil & filters changed at every service . The 112,000 mile one is the cambelt change.

Find out exactly what they are going to do before you commit. Are you going to a dealer or a dedicated independent?

I just had mine done including a full service plus new cambelt and tensioner, water pump, auxilary belt and tensioner , centre section of the exhaust, ball joints, injectors removed, inspected and new washers and fire washers plus a few other bits and bobs including cooling system flush and new antifreeze and pollen filter.
£399!

boristhespie · Post by **boristhespie** » 18 May 2009, 19:30

I asked the dealer in Montrose. They talked about filters, oil change no mention of cambelt. Montrose talked about £300 while the Dundee dealer talked £350?

Post by **myglaren** » 18 May 2009, 19:36

That is just ridiculous!

The indy I use charges £80 for oil change, replace all the filters, check brakes etc.

boristhespie · Post by **boristhespie** » 18 May 2009, 19:52

And the cam belt? (what is that anyway)

Is this an important service incidentally. The reason I ask and the reason I am trying to get info on things wrong with my car is that I have spent a fortune in these places and quite frankly I don't want to have to again but also I really, really can't afford it just now. Seriosuly can't afford it.

£80 would be great but an independant would need knowledge of the C5 not sure how many of those around here (Angus/Dundee).

As way of explaining the dealer (Dundee). I have a large bang when going over bumps. it started off when going into compression but now when going over bumps. Initially I thought it was the exhaust which was fitted (they told me that while it was only one section needing replaced they have to do the whole exhaust as it come in a unit) but the exhaust is fine. The banging is on the left rear and you can feel it under the passenger seat there. It is a helluva noise.

Anyway it has been in the Dundee dealer three times. One time I came back to find they had replaced the front anti-roll bar as that was what was causing the rear banging(!?). Anyway it has continued. They have had it in twice more and been unable to locate it.

I took it to Montrose and they too we unable to locate it. This is no small noise. it sound like the car is going to collapse but it isn't the suspension. Anyway hundreds of pound later it is as bad as ever. So youi can imagine I don't want to give these guys my cash.

Anyway long story. But can you tell me more re the 112k service and cam belt?

Post by **myglaren** » 18 May 2009, 20:47

Some things do need quite specialist knowledge but any reasonably competent mechanic could change the cambelt and ancillary components.
I've done it on a few cars - a Citroen GS was the first and I was scared to start it when it was complete, all went well though. IIRC there were actually two belts on that, being a flat four, could be imagining that though, was a long while back.

Most of the guys on the forum do this stuff in their sleep. It isn't that difficult, just needs a bit of info, care and attention.

However, I wouldn't recommend it as a first automotive DIY project unless you have a competent assistant.

The cambelt essentially runs over a toothed wheel bolted to the end of the crankshaft and then to a similar toothed wheel on the camshaft and keeps the two synchronised. This synchronisation is critical and any deviation can be a disaster for the engine, which is why it needs changing before it fails.
It also runs the water pump for the cooling system.
It is recommended that the water pump be changed at the same time as the belt as they have a reputation for failing soon after the belt is done and sometimes take the new belt with them, the engine too in the worst cases.
The tensioners are often worn or distorted and need replacing too.
It is an additional expense but nowhere near as painful as having to do it all again when a minor part fails.

I kind of went overboard and asked for the lot to be done along with new auxiliary belt and tensioners. As it happened the belt had been done at 100,000 miles but there was no way I could have been sure and the tensioner was failing. Pleased I did as although it was a fair few quid it is peanuts compared to the cost of a new/reconditioned engine + fitting.

If you feel up to the challenge then you will get as much support as you need from the guys here. Most are knowledgeable about Xantia engines but that knowledge is transferable to the C5, lots of similarities between the two, especially the HDi's.

The brakes are reasonably easy to DIY but there are aspects that require special attention. Mechanics unused to Citroen's quirks have been known to make a dreadful hash of it. With some info acquired from here it is well within your capabilities.

Here is a video of a cambelt change (Rover). While there are differences it is essentially the same as this.

Another of a Honda Accord so you get the idea of what it is like with the engine in the car.

boristhespie · Post by **boristhespie** » 18 May 2009, 20:52

Thanks for the help. Incidentally is this the same as the timing belt as I had that changed last service which was a costly biggie which is why I am wondering why this is costing so much?

boristhespie · Post by **boristhespie** » 18 May 2009, 20:59

Bludy hell, this is the lot who have services my car since I bought it from them and yet even though the service history is on their computer they still say it will cost this?

That said they never mentioned the cambelt.

So I guess they are just expensive. Anyway I am taking the car in for the power steering pump noise. No doubt they will want to replace it.

All this is with a view to a france journey to see family hence the panic.

Post by **myglaren** » 18 May 2009, 21:07

Was this

the guy who quoted you £350?

I would seriously investigate alternative service options.

Re: the banging at the back.
It could be something as simple as a loose tool in the boot. Take the spare wheel and everything in the wheel well out, along with any odds and ends in the storage pockets in the boot, then test drive it.

Failing that it sounds like a suspension arm bush that is kaput.

Make sure that it is from the rear though, sound can be transmitted through the car body and appear to come from somewhere other than where it actually is.
Drop links at the front can sound like that and are a lot simpler and cheaper to rectify.

Deanxm · Post by **Deanxm** » 18 May 2009, 22:31

you think thats bad, my mate just got charged 170 of our great british pounds to change, wait for it i promise this is good, a...................fuel filter on his derv C3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! what the "£$$£$^%&^%""%£!!!!! and they said he needed new glow plugs, standard service item that would require relativly easy access wouldnt you think? well er no, they have to take the engine out

at £71 an hour, you couldnt make it up could you

Also was anyone sad enough to watch the honda cambelt vid right through? i was and whenever i see hundreds of white paint marks under the cambelt cover you just know the timings going to be at least a tooth out.

Yes thats the man your honour, he dont half get about a bit!!

meexi · Post by **meexi** » 18 May 2009, 22:34

surely the timing belt etc. was done at 100,000 miles and all you are needing now is a basic 12,500miles service which according to auto data is under 2 hours labour (they have big windows in them Citroen garages)

Ps check your pm`s

boristhespie · Post by **boristhespie** » 18 May 2009, 22:48

Yup thought that. but like I said I got the main quote from citroen dealer in dundee that was £350 and then called citroen in Montrose where they quoted £300 ish and when asked what it included was told it was oilchange, filters changed and it being put on the computer. Oah best of all I get it hoovered and washed free of charge.

The banging is not tools. I checked that. the suspension has been checked and pronounced okay. The was what I obviously thought along with exhaust.

I do understadnt that sound can travel I I thoughtt that it may be where the exhaust joins engine and the sound is travelling. it does reek more now. But is there anything under the trays, because they boing. (Note my technical terminology)

Thanks for all you help though.

Post by **myglaren** » 18 May 2009, 23:35

At those prices it is certainly worth the effort of doing it yourself.

Have you done any servicing previously? (cars, not the other kind)

Changing the oil and filters is no big deal.
I'm guessing slightly at the prices but 5L synthetic oil (10W40 IIRC) around £25.
Oil filter around £8.
Air filter about the same.
Diesel filter - not sure but if you read some of the threads it would be advisable to change not just the filter but the complete unit to eliminate any possibility of very fine metallic particles finding their way into the diesel pump.
If you have a GSF, or Eurocarparts local to you give them a ring for prices.
If not GSF mail stuff out but you may find it at local motor factors with the exception of the diesel filter and housing.
If you have air con then you will probably need a new pollen filter, around £16.

I haven't done the C5. Haven't actually done anything on it myself other than light bulbs

but I used to do the Xantia about every six weeks and it took about fifteen minutes, a bit longer with the diesel filter but not much.

Would come home from work, shove the suspension on high.
Make a cup of tea, get the bits together (used an old washing up bowl to catch the oil).
remove the sump plug.
While the oil drained, remove the oil filter and air filter.
replace air filter.
Replace oil filter.
Replace sum plug.
Chuck about four litres of oil in, let it run down. Check the level and adjust until about right.
Run the engine for a minute.
Recheck the level, clear all the rubbish away, recheck the level.
Job done.

First time you will need some tools for the job, probably.
I haven't a clue what the sump plug needs - I always used a socket on a ratchet handle but some use an allen (hex) key. You'd need to investigate this or even better one of the other C5 owners will know.
Possibly a strap or chain wrench for the oil filter, they get tight and some mechanics tighten them up far too much to start with.
I think the air filter housing just unclips but there may be screws in it. It's a bit dark to check that now.
Diesel filter - don't know on the C5, will have a look in the morning.
Pollen filter. Under the trim in the passenger footwell near to the centre console. There is a diagram on the forum somewhere. One or two screws keeping the holder in. Undo the screws, slide the holder out, swap the filters, put the holder and the trim back.

If the car is a bit smelly inside it could be fungal growth in the aircon & filter. It has been mentioned that a blast with a Dettol spray into the tubes when the filter is out is benificial.

When draining the oil it should be fairly warm. You need to be careful not to burn your hands with the oil. I was rather blase about this but used several pairs of latex gloves anyway. You should fit a new copper washer to the bung before refitting. I don't know anyone who ever has though.

The undertray on the C5 is a hindrance apparently but it can't be that bad.
Xantia's have a neat trapdoor. I removed mine while mowing down some bushes when a tyre blew out at 90mph. The trapdoor was the least of my worries though.

I'm sure there must be bits I have missed but I'll get back to it or someone will jump in and fill the missing bits in.

You can reset the service light/counter yourself. I'll have to find the book and check but I think you hold down the trip reset button then turn on the ignition and watch the counter run down to zero. It is pretty simple anyway.

Re: banging - relatively clueless there but have a look at the rear tyres. Are they vertical seen from behind and parallel to one another?
Are they wearing evenly?

boristhespie · Post by **boristhespie** » 18 May 2009, 23:51

Will have a look at the tyres but they look alright and I am sure the guy in Montrose (yes tried them too) checked the alignment when looking for the banging and they were okay. Will check again.

The smell is of exhaust fumes. which is a recent event. it doesn't seem to smoke but does hint at an issue with the exhast somewhere.

Are there diagrams of where all the filters are somewhere? Will be phoning garage tomorrow to check service price just to find out for interest sake. Do have it going in re noise from what they say is the power steering pump (like it is rubbing) and to check the power issue. I did find this regarding this

http://www.justanswer.com/questions/1hu ... seems-lack

So I assume that the filter could be the issue too.

Anyway going to bed. Thanks for the help. if I go ahead with trying to do somethings myself I will let you know. Please keep any advice coming if you think I need it. I appreciate it.

Post by **myglaren** » 19 May 2009, 00:17

Yep, that filter advice was exactly what I was thinking of.

The exhaust smell is something I noticed shortly after buying mine.
It was an injector that had burned away the copper washer and it wouldn't surprise me if yours was the same. If you remove the plastic cover from the engine and let it idle you may be able to hear it 'chuffing' and see some coal-like deposits around it.

When stationary the ventilation system would suck the fumes into the cabin.
No problem when the car was moving.

I'll put some photo's of the filters up tomorrow.