newbie/xantia 1.9td lack of power?

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rvfbelfast
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newbie/xantia 1.9td lack of power?

Post by rvfbelfast »

hello everyone,ive recently joined the ranks of citroen ownership again with a 98 xantia 1.9td after a brief foray with a bx nearly 20 yrs ago.the problem im having is a distinct lack of go,ive searched the site for similar symptoms but havent found anything.the engine is sound-very tight,doesnt seem to be burning any oil,the turbo (garrett)is spinning,revving the engine at idle produced boost pressure in the inlet to the i/cooler and also after the intercooler,there doesnt seem to be any leaks-no hissing etc.i fitted a new fuel filter recently-no difference,head gasket seems fine.i replaced the vaccuum pipe from the boost pipe to the pump.(i bought a really long piece of tubing so that i could suck on it to try to create vaccuum for the diaphragm on the pump while driving-no difference!)revving at a standstill+holding a piece of paper at the boost pipe vaccuum out(that goes to the pump)doesnt seem to produce enough vaccuum to hold the piece of paper ! the only thing that i can think of would be a weak wastegate or something maybe.could anyone shed some light for me?it would be really really appreciated thanks...
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Post by MikeT »

Hi rvfbelfast and welcome to FCF. May I ask what the RVF is in reference to - not an RC by any chance?

The hose you assume to be a vacuum hose is in fact the opposite. It's a boost pipe that compresses the diaphragm(sp?) to enrichen the fuel. Is it possible for you to tap that pipe for a boost gauge to see how much boost is reaching the inlet manifold?
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Post by AndersDK »

Mike is spot on.

Try the long hose test again, but this time BLOW a constant pressure into the regulator on the diesel pump.
Chances are that the regulator bit which the hose fits on to is clogged with oil sediments - or its diagprlh ... membrane is punctured.

If it seems to leak out diesel fuel the membrane is gone for sure.
A rather easy repair.
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Post by Peter.N. »

That's quite correct, try blowing down the pipe instead of sucking! Can you feel any increase of power at around 2000 rpm when the turbo comes in? If you disconnect the air iintake pipe to the manifold you should be able to feel quite a draught from it when you rev the engine.
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Post by rvfbelfast »

thanks guys,lol,its not an rc mike but its little brother,the nc.but it is painted in joey dunlops hukrc colours+sports all the hrc intake+ignition kit,i made the screen name as a jest years ago+it stuck+i use it for everything now.ok-im glad i got it wrong with the direction of air to the diapragm,i must do a search on ebay for a boost gauge and tap it in,what kind of pressure should i be reading? there is a little lift at 2k rpm where it should be boosting well but its still not making much power,under 2k rpm it is quite turgid, it has the classic laziness of a td without boost yet it is boosting some at least.. my old 150 thou miler mk1 mondeo was much superior below and above 2k.i,ll try a good blow down the pipe tomorrow then maybe take the diaphragm out+have a look then get back to you all if im still stuck..thanks very much for your wisdom guys-much appreciated
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Post by RichardW »

Blowing down the pipe won't make any difference - the turbo works at up to 1 bar, you can blow a few mbar at best :lol: If you disconnect that pipe and then rev the engine, you should feel a strong blast of (warm / hot) air come out of it. If not, then the turbo is not working as it should.
Note that the Xantia is a heavy old beast, and the 90 BHP from the 1.9TD does not exactly set the world on fire - it should reach m-way speed without too much trouble and be able to hold it up inclines without needing too much extra throttle. If you want it to get a move on, you need to keep it spinning above 3k rpm 8)
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Post by Peter.N. »

Richard is right, you won't get enough puff to make much difference. Turbo boost is usually about 7 psi so a 10 psi or more gauge should be adequate. The 2.1 engine comes on maximum torque and boost at about 2000 rpm, the 1.9 may be a little higher but you should notice a considerable increase in power above that point. A boost gauge would certainly be the best way to go, you will probably find something suitable on ebay for not to much money. If you want a really torquey engine you wont beat a 2.1.
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Post by citroenxm »

Check your intercooler pipes - -I bought a Xantia that had a fully working turbo but absolutly NO GO at all, it would NOT go up an incline without slowing to 40mph!!

Result?? Intercooler pipe - it was the one below the battery that takes the charged air TO the intercooler... it had a massive split in it..

I could NOT hear blowing air when driving - it was only when I noticed a load of oil all over the end of the gearbox and proceeded to remove intercooler pipes to do a turbo swap a noticed the massive split...


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Post by CitroJim »

And if it's not the intercooler pipes themselves, or a hole in the intercooler, there is one more thing - the cat. Threse can block over time and restrict performance badly. Luckily they're not a legal requirement on a diesel and can be replaced with a straight-through pipe.

Having run both a 2.1 and 1.9TD I have to agree with peter here; it is quite a shiock to get back into a 1.9TD after a 2.1TD and wonder where all the torque has gone :o The essential difference between the two engines is the 1.9TD is revvy and needs to be revved well to get the best out of it whereas the 2.1TD is very much an old-school engine that has lots of low-down grunt but not much up top!

The 1.9TD should however, when well revved, make the Xantia feel quite lively but yes, it is a heavy lump of car for the engine to really sparkle.
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Post by JamesQB »

My parents have the 1.9TD engine and it's sluggish at low revs, only really coming into its own at 3000 or so. As they're used to petrols and gear changing at low revs, they were complaining that it had no poke at all. I drove it and kept the revs high in all gears and showed them the difference in driving performance - they were quite impressed at the difference. They had been climbing a hill to the house and keeping the gears high enough for the engine to not go much above 2000rpm, if at all, and saying how the speed just dropped off until they were crawling. I took the same hill with them in the back but used the gears to keep the revs above 3000 and shot up it quite nimbly, faster than some petrol cars struggling and losing speed behind us.

Still, my complaints with it are that it's grunty when it starts, as though it's missing and trying to sort itself out, and if you're in a high gear and slow down too much, there's no response from the engine at all if you put your foot down unless you shift down and give it some stick - and I'm talking of only dropping off speed a small amount compared to other cars I've driven, including the 1.9TD Xantia estate I had. Seems to have a very limited rev range where there's much torque. Altogether I found it a pain to drive.
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Post by rvfbelfast »

Thanks guys,im gonna try a boost gauge to determine just how much boost its making first of all,i had the boost pipe disconnected just before it enters the manifold and covered it with my hand while revving the engine,so that i could hear if there were any leaks from the pipes which there didnt seem to be.i half expected the boost pressure to blow my hand off the pipe but it didnt-with some firm pressure i was able quite easily to divert all the boost possibly through the w/gate(presuming there isnt a split pipe anywhere).does this sound normal? i appreciate the xantia is a heavy motor but my only reference is my old m0nde0 1.8td(1750cc) ,which with 4 adults on board would have been quicker in gear!.ive no idea how these garrett w/gates operate but has anyone been able to tinker with the actuator to to delay its opening to increase boost pressure a little?ok and finally lol-is there anyone connected with the site who makes de-cat pipes for the 1.9td?
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Post by MikeT »

RIP Joey. I admire those 400's a lot but little bikes don't suit me too well.

As for the turbo, you'll only see full boost in a high gear like 3rd or 4th, it will make very little just revving freely, it has to be under load for some time. Yes, the wastegate can be adjusted though it's a pain to get too.
Some fit longer actuator hoses so the controller can be reached more easily - to get the tune right, you may have to make many adjustments.
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Post by firstrebel »

I have had my Xantia 1.9TD since Easter and have had to change my driving habits compared with my 280bhp Volvo. I have found you have to make the Xantia work, using the rev range in each gear.

Pulling away from stationary on a hill is more noise than movement in 1st gear but I find it is adequate in the busy London environment of impatient drivers.

However, I can put it in 5th at 40mph if the road is level, and will pull away with gentle acceleration.

I think you have to adjust your level of expectation.

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Post by XantiaMan »

Strange, i always found my TD a pleasure to drive, good pull from 2000 and only running out of puff over 4500rpm.... but then it was in perfect order and slightly tweaked on the fuelling. Didnt feel underpowered in normal driving conditions at all.
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Post by myglaren »

I was always more than happy with my TD except for the one occasion when the turbo hose fell off. It was noticably underpowered then for a while.
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