Xantia HDi smoking

Post by **DHallworth** » 25 Jan 2011, 18:26

Well this took an interesting turn today...

The smoke when running has cleared after a good long high speed run this afternoon. It's transformed it when running now those EGR valves are blanked off.

I noticed that when you start the car for the first time during the day the smoke that comes from it is blue. It's fairly thick when it first starts too.

Now I need to find out if i can replace the valve stem seals with the head in situ. If that doesn't solve it then I'll need to look into sorting out the rings.

Also, is there any cure for injector rattle? When you accelerate in this thing they rattle quite a bit.

Thanks again for your help guys.

David.

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 25 Jan 2011, 19:25

Hi D

Of course you CANNOT replace valce seals with the head in situ!

The valves needs removing as the seals are quite tight on the top of the guide... Compressing the valve spring would take some dooing to remove the collets while the spring is compressed....

The 2.oi Heads wont come off seperatly from the turbo, as a couple of the manifold studs are nigh impossible to get at unless you have very rubbery flexible hands, and funny spanners....

Your best bet with some of the other things you have said is to bite this thing by the bullet and drag the WHOLE lot out, change the clutch, work on the head, then put it all back in! It WILL be so much easyer and save you some time!

Let your ladie use the red car while you do the work!

Paul

dieselnutjob · Post by **dieselnutjob** » 25 Jan 2011, 19:48

does the rattle stop if you accelerate past 3200rpm ?

Post by **DHallworth** » 25 Jan 2011, 19:51

dieselnutjob wrote:does the rattle stop if you accelerate past 3200rpm ?

Yup, totally.

Feels as if it looses a bit of power as the rattle stops too.

David.

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 25 Jan 2011, 20:30

Ive got awfull injector rattle on my 110bhp HDi UP to 3k.... after 3k it goes.

No problem with smoke though, I hae to say with the same tuning box fitted as a recent W reg HDi 110, she DOES NOT go as well as the other....

I assumed injector rattle is a character - and not solveable...

Paul

Post by **RichardW** » 25 Jan 2011, 21:06

T'aint supposed to rattle of course....

The clue is in the sharp cut off at 3200 rpm - this is the point pre-injection (which ironically is supposed to REDUCE diesel knock!) switches off. At higher mileages the injectors get a bit dribbly and the pre-injection goes a bit wonky hence the 'injector' rattle.

I'm starting to think mine is a real good un.... just turned 111k today - no sign of injector rattle, original crank pulley still in good condition, no appreciable wear on timing belt or pulleys, engine still largely oil tight, no smoke, still smooth and quiet, still pulls like a train

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 25 Jan 2011, 21:09

Ah richard thats interesting!!

Mums HDi at 146k has NO rattle... My First ever HDi with 255k on it (Recon engine though) had no injector rattle either...

Hmmmmmm prehaps an injector change is due, would this help any MPG at all???

Paul

HDI · Post by **HDI** » 25 Jan 2011, 21:43

177K miles, no rattle but you've given me something to worry about now

dieselnutjob · Post by **dieselnutjob** » 25 Jan 2011, 22:30

If the rattle stops above 3200rpm then you have a dodgy injector.

The injector is opening for pre-injection but then failing to close fast enough.
The result is too much fuel too early resulting in knocking.

It only happens when you demand power because the injection pressure is under ECU control.

At idle the rail pressure will be about 300 bar but at full power it's 1350 bar. So you have an injector that is okay at 300 bar but at 1350 bar it isn't okay and failing to shut properly after pre-injection.

Above 3200 rpm pre-injection stops and so the problem goes away.

The injector consists of a nozzle at the bottom and a solenoid at the top with a rod connecting the two. The solenoid doesn't just push the nozzle open, rather there is a balance of forces with a bit of trying to open the nozzle and a bit more keeping it closed. The solenoid just upsets the balance causing the injector to open.
When the rod wears it allows high pressure fuel from the nozzle end up into the solenoid where it shouldn't be and upsets the balance.

I had the same problem with my 806. I tried reconn injectors without much luck (they can only change the nozzle, not the rod).

In the end I bought just one new injector and replaced one.
Still had the rattle.
So swapped the now spare injector with another.
Still had the rattle.
Then swapped that with another.
Rattle gone.
The injector now in my hand is the bad one.

Probably the best bet is to get a set of four from a breakers yard. You just need to match the Bosch part number that's written on the top of the injector, something like 0445 110 044

I do get a little bit of white smoke which looks like the water vapour from cold petrol engines on my HDIs when it's very cold. It soon goes away and I think is normal. Nothing when the weather's a bit warmer though.

falling-out-with-my-car · Post by **falling-out-with-my-car** » 28 Jan 2011, 11:30

could this be due to the excessive amounts of alcohol being put into fuels claimming to be good for the enviroment?

HDI · Post by **HDI** » 28 Jan 2011, 12:52

Alcohol isn't being added to diesel.

dieselnutjob · Post by **dieselnutjob** » 28 Jan 2011, 17:08

nothing lasts forever

personally I put Millers Diesel Clean (or whatever it's called now) in whenever I can as it has proven wear reduction capabilities

Post by **DHallworth** » 21 Nov 2011, 21:26

Well after months of scratching my chin I think I've finally found out why this Xantia HDi was smoking and it was purely by chance...

When I took the front end off the car I noticed that there was a black oily spot on the bottom of the intercooler. I didn't even need the compressor to detect the leak, covering one end with my hand and blowing in it was enough to hear the air escaping from it.

Ordered a new one and fitted it, started the car and it was running nicer, when revving it the smoke seems to have cleared and the thick diesely smell from it has gone. Sounds much more like the other HDi that we've had, just got to get the front back on the car now and then take it for a run.

Never even considered that there were problems with the intercooler as it's never been *noticeably* down on power or performance.

It's taken long enough, I've changed the injectors and washers, changed the EGR valve, blanked off the EGR valve, changed the MAF sensor and generally been all over everything!

Hey ho, you live and learn... At least we've got a known healthy HDi now.... Just need to sort the suspension out now. Got a new anti sink valve to go on the front and then it needs an electrovalve replacing.

David.

Post by **CitroJim** » 22 Nov 2011, 05:59

Excellent work David

It does seem to be a clue that if an HDi smokes then it's a good bet there's a leak on the boost pipes. I found this on mine; when i had a small leak then I could see haze under accelleration in the lights of the vehicle behind me. Once the leak was fixed - the little stub pipe on the end of the turbo had split - I see no smoke or haze at all. Unusual for an intercooler to fail though as they're well protected on the Xantia...

have you seen the blog threads on your old XM and on its gearbox rebuild? It's ironic perhaps that the torque converter is now on it's way to Glasgow for a rebuild

falling-out-with-my-car · Post by **falling-out-with-my-car** » 22 Nov 2011, 13:42

HDI wrote:Alcohol isn't being added to diesel.

sorry I should have said ethanol or as the garages like to put it bio ethanol. or B100

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